NS: Aquaman discussion

[lucean]

Greeting to everyone,

 As most might know, the latest DCEU offering Aquaman came out this weekend and at the moment seems to poised to make a lot of money. Like tons of it. As someone who saw this week and who is so egocentric that he thinks that people actually care of his opinions, I thought to write a discussion post here on the film.

 Before going in to depth and spoilers after the cut, I'll just say this as a general comment. This movie was incredibly fun, had awesome action sequences and really needs to be seen on the big screen. It is also incredibly dumb and has some of the most cringe-worthy dialogue I have seen in a while. Yet despite that, I recommend going out to watch it as it was a blast.

 Then for some more detailed comments.

- James Wan has a really awesome sense for elaborate actions sequences and how to gel those set pieces with special effects. For all the action we saw here, it never felt truly repetitive and it was this big roller coaster which was just thrilling to be on.

- However, as written above, the script is stupid. Fortunately it doesn't take itself seriously which helps ignoring some of the big problems. Still the dialogue is so stilted at times and it feels like they kept rewriting the script to the degree that it contradicted previously filmed scenes. The big example of this is the message where Vulko tells them that the technology of the message is too old for them, which is why they have to go to the Deserters. However there it is revealed that apparently the message needed to be read there as the bottle was there as well.

- By the way, as fun as this movie was, the stupidity of the bottled message was almost too much for me. Fortunately the Italian town action sequence was again really good.

- It was hilarious how literal the Atlantian kingdom names were. Seriously, the Deserters and Vanishers?

- Something that really surprised me in this movie is how much Arthur gets his ass kicked in the best possible way. He basically has two character arcs in this movie and the one that is successful is his lesson of humility. He speaks of himself as a blunt instrument, but as the movie goes on he realizes that he can't beat things by just fighting them head-on. With Karathen, it is Arthur's ability to talk to sealife that allows him to survive there. And with Orm, it is Arthur accepting that he cannot defeat Orm in the water that pushes him to take the fight out of the water. It also helps that Momoa really embraces that part of the character and makes that vulnerability work better than I would have expected.

- Writing some more on character work, Patrick Wilson was probably the MVP of the movie for me. One of the central problems with the script was that Orm was all over the place as a character, but Wilson somehow managed to make the character feel coherent. Also his last smile to Vulko was such a small, brilliant choice that made me more excited for what is next to the character.

- So, similarly to Justice League, halfway through this film I realized I was watching a Geoff Johns movie. With Aquaman, at least during his run on the title, Johns had this weird fixation which was also present in this movie. There are several scenes in the film where people tell Arthur how Atlantis needs a king and how Arthur is that king it desperately needs. Now if they had just stuck in to the aspect that he is the only one who could take the throne from Orm, that would be fair, but they also seem to be absolutely convinced that Arthus will be this legendary leader despite him literally not showing any leadership capabilities at all in this movie. This fits with what Johns did with the character as for some reason he was really focused on the concept that Arthur was born to be a king and then just decided to skip what makes him a good king. It really hurt the second character arc for Arthur as it just basically shrugged Arthur to power.

- Relating to Arthur's rise to power, that coronation should be an awkward ceremony considering that there is probably a large portion of the Atlantean military traumatized by the horrors of the deep Arthur unleashed on them. Seriously, imagine standing in attention for the guy who was the reason a Trencher tore your closest comrade to shreds.

- Another thing related to the line of succession made the film kind of awkward. They kept repeating how Atlantis needs a king, which for the first couple of times just felt like a line. However at a certain point I started to puzzle that wasn't a queen also fine? Then Atlanna made the return and the despite the fact that the exiled Queen Mother through whom the line of Atlantis Royalty went through and should have been the rightful ruler, everyone still kept going on about how Atlantis needs a king. At that moment it became awkward and seemed to imply that if Atlanna's oldest was a girl, Orm wouldn't have a challenger. What makes it even weirder, in the comics that's not an issue and Atlantis has been ruled by queens.

- After all this, still enjoyed the movie and it truly felt like an unique experience, managing to take full advantage of the water environment and delivering something honestly awesome at times.

With that I draw to a close here and I would naturally love to hear thoughts from others who have seen the film. I'm still torn that if I'm going to do one of those for the Spiderverse film, as I don't think there was a discussion post for that, but in case that does not happen, I hope you all have a most delightful end of the years.

Comments

[lordultimus]

I was kinda surprised that he made through it with both parents alive. I guess either or both of them are fair game for any sequels, but it's a refreshing change.

[cyberghostface]

Really happy for James Wan. It's impressive how far he's come from the days of Saw.

[mazway_75]

It's the little touches I loved. Like how Black Manta's first attempt to work in the lasers in the helmet eyes blows it apart and goes "think I need a bigger helmet." That's a great logical explanation for having that huge helmet and worked out terrific.

On that, amazed they gave Manta more depth then expected and how even Arthur acknowledges he understands why Manta wants him dead, good work there.

And I so want a future DCEU movie somehow featuring a team-up between Hippolyta and Atlanna.

[roxas832]

I liked how they worked in Black Manta but I feel like they could have made his reason for wanting revenge against Aquaman a little better. I sympathized a little too much with him because Aquaman just straight up leaves the Manta pirates to die. If the film had the death come from a heartache or stroke while fighting Aquaman, I feel that would have been better.

[erikred]

I'm going to lead with: I really enjoyed the movie; it was funny, well-paced, and full of action.

On that, amazed they gave Manta more depth then expected and how even Arthur acknowledges he understands why Manta wants him dead, good work there.

Yeah, see, that part bugged me. Yes, he acknowledges that he could have saved Manta's father and chose not to, but the reason he gives for that weighing on him is that Manta is now trying to kill Mera. Maybe a better reason to regret letting Manta pere die is that it would have cost you exactly nothing to have saved him in the first place, and you just decided, hell with that, beer time awaits. Yes, yes, Papa Manta did trap himself with that warhead when he tried to kill you, but even so, he was then trapped and helpless, and you were never in danger of, say, drowning.

Anywho, I'm probably way overthinking it; as I said, I really enjoyed the movie, and not even this took away from that. But we're all down with Black Manta stone-cold killing him in the next movie, right? Because that's the way this arc goes.

[lucean]

Yeah, that was a weird beat that took me by surprise as well. When Arthur started talking about regretting allowing Manta's dad to die, I sure as hell wasn't expecting the reason to be Manta just wanting vengeance. Especially in a movie where Arthur's character arc was supposed to be about learning to show mercy.

[blueprintstyles]

I saw it on friday, def some cringe moments but overall it was a fun and entertaining movie. Aquaman is very different form the heroes we gotten from Marvel or DC. The scene with the flowers defines Aquaman in a great way for me.

[joetuss]

The DCEU has no plans for Superman, or Batman, and the last 3 films range from meh, to freaking awful. All of that is enough for me to skip the hell out of this, and any other future projects.

[capnduckman]

Because they don't have plans for other comics, you'll deny yourself the experience of watching a movie that is really fun, good, and doesn't actually link to those other ones?

[joetuss]

Well i don't actually plan on never seeing it, im just not willing to burn gas driving to the local theater to pay to see it. I have no problem waiting for it to come out on cable like my wife, and kids suggested. So no, im not denying myself of anything, im just waiting patently.

As for the other reason, I really liked Henry Cavill as Superman, and Batfleck. Were there missteps made in their characterizations? Absolutely, but they worked within that universe. MOS and BVS Superman was far from the inspirational figure we've always known him to be in comics (not Henry's fault), but as bad as the film was Justice League took some steps to him eventually becoming that shining beacon of hope.

Batfleck was a outright murderer in BVS, but in my unpopular opinion it looked good on him...He was hands down the best part of that film. Watching him chase those guys down in the bat mobile, and rip through those guys in that warehouse felt like Batman. You could feel the fear of those guys coming off of the screen...of course Justice League did away with all that goodness, and turned him into some washed up middle-aged retired athlete/baby sitter, but i really think, with a few tweaks here and there, they had real potential to be awesome.

So when you tell me those guys are out, and you have no future plans for arguably the two most popular characters in all of fiction, aka the foundation of everything great in your company, not to mention two of my top 5 favorite characters, what incentive do i have to buy tickets for your films?

[roxas832]

By far the most visually striking DC movie. Every underwater shot looks amazing, especially the manta ray migration flashback and the city of Atlantis itself.
I really want the art book for this and Into the Spider Verse. Also the first DC movie with a great villain. Ocean Master is awesome in this. At least when Patrick Wilson isn't screaming attack. The climax was amazing, I loved the image of Ocean Master kneeling while holding his father's broke trident. A lot of people are comparing this to Black Panther and I think like BP, the film develops the villain much more than the hero. Which isn't awful.

[lucean]

Slight disagreeance on the first good DCEU villain as I did really love Zod/Faora.

As mentioned in my post, Wilson was just bringing it in this movie. The way he smiled at Vulko at the end indicated that he understood the name of the game and just added so much to the character.

[joetuss]

Zod was cool, Faora was awesome. Wasted potential smh.

[mazway_75]

And in case you missed it, the voice of the mega-monster Arthur talks to at the end? JULIE ANDREWS.

To be clear: Andrews turned down an offered cameo in the new Mary Poppins film to voice a monstrous sea creature in a DC comic movie. That is just awesome.

[lucean]

Man, I completely forgot that that was Julie Andrews. She even did a really good job giving the sea monster a sense of character.

After writing that last sentence, I kept staring it trying to figure out how did movies come to this and loving every moment of it.

[alschroeder3]

I liked it. It was defintely over-the-top, especially the crustaceans of the brine, but hey, to have an enjoyable AQUAMAN movie would have seemed unbelievable even ten years ago. (It's odd how the D-level heroes tend to make enjoyable films, like ANT-MAN and AQUAMAN.) The star would have made a much better Lobo than Aquaman, but it was fun, engaging, and I just wished they had actually used the word "Skataris" for the "center of the earth".

[joetuss]

Oh God, he would make a awesome Lobo...but how do you even make a good film around that character?

[alschroeder3]

I doubt if you could make a good film around Lobo---but you MIGHT be able to make a FUN one, a la the first GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY film. Not serious at all, but fun.

[joetuss]

He would be the DCEU's answer to Deadpool.

[laughing_tree]

I'm surprised at how well-received the film has been. A lot of folks who like it even have the same criticisms as me (the predictable, by the numbers plot; the shallow characterization, etc.), only it doesn't bother them as much.

And I felt both Black Manta and Orm were badly cast. Both performances were so bland and devoid of charisma. I saw someone online say the guy who played Manta's father would have been way better in the Manta role itself, and I agree.

And while it's not really a criticism of this movie, I'll just add, because I'm dying to express this unpopular opinion: The "full-blood Atlantean but taken in by a human + Tarzan of the dolphins" origin is way more interesting than the "just like Namor" origin. Does anyone else agree? I know that even Keith Giffen, the guy who co-wrote the dolphin stuff, doesn't agree. He's called it a mistake. But he's wrong, dammit.

[lordultimus]

He's not really just like Namor if he grew up on land.

[laughing_tree]

Still too similar for my tastes.

[zylly]

I definitely enjoyed the film, but I couldn't help but think about how many people Atlana, Mera, and Arthur killed or maimed (or set Trenchers or Krakken on) that were just ordinary soldiers and guards following what they expected with lawful orders of their king.

Yeah, the ones in Italy were Orm's personal goon squad and had been working directly with Manta, but I expect the vast majority of them were not in on the duplicity or anything.

[capnduckman]

I loved the costumes, I loved the interplay. The only problem I has was Maras seeming to wind up as "Princess Exposition" everytime she opened her mouth. But then, she did that in the JL movie too, so....

[tripodeca113]

Apparently at the start of the film Aquamans dad is reading The Dunwich Horror. I suppose it does feature the offspring between humans and eldritch creatures, but you'd expect them to go with Shadows Over Innsmouth, because it has fishpeople

But it also has the racism and the anti-interacial marriages angel, so yeah.

[lordultimus]

It's still better than when Lovecraft dropped the metaphor.

[cygnia]

Yeah, Slate touched upon that too...

https://slate.com/culture/2018/12/aquaman-movie-hp-lovecraft-racism-miscegenation.html

[lordultimus]

Only drawback to this is that we probably won't see Namor on the big screen for at least 5 years, if ever.

(Though I suspect many on scans-daily will be glad at that.)