Captain Marvel #8

[lordultimus]

Comments

[joetuss]

Spider-Man had to deal with this at 15 years old, and he kept plugging away at it.

[starwolf_oakley]

Peter Parker has a never-ending emotionally-stunting guilt complex. Carol Danvers does not.

Carol has also left Earth behind in the past, usually after a traumatic experience.

[deh_tommy]

Poor Carol Danvers can never catch a break, either, between all the amnesia and everything she thinks she knows being proven wrong and the mind control and being depowered and being repowered and the alcoholism and the anxiety and the Civil Wars and that one time she was partially responsible for Hydra's takeover of America.

[jlbarnett]

yep. I'd actually be fine with it, except she doesn't seem to want to extend the right to others

[zerocaloriecola]

She doesn't?

[jlbarnett]

I was referring to Carol's tending to always go to the side of giving the government more power over superheroes. She was Pro-reg in the first Civil War, in favor of using the visions to incarcerate people in the second(both sides were really dumb in that fight)

[zerocaloriecola]

Seems separate to wanting to quit after a traumatic experience. Oh well.

And in this case (of the comic) the government seems to limit her authority (military status, and making her a liability to alpha flight so she has to quit) so seems compliant to government power here too, to some extent.

Of course the first civil war was poorly thought out so there were some comics where you could retire, and others where you had to register no matter what, but it's more about if you wanna operate do it within the rules rather than operate outside of them.

[jlbarnett]

that's just it. The register no matter what part means quitting after a traumatic event isn't allowed for these other people

[zerocaloriecola]

well unfortunately, that seems to be more a quirk of the civil war type that wasn't particularly internally consistent. Like you had to look at the book and how its rules worked.

Like I do remember certain heroes being able to quit/retire like firestar. Anya I believe was given the opportunity, but declined (even if it meant compulsory training sessions). Rick sheridan and Machine man signed up voluntarily (though rick motivated by his gf's death and MM for getting a monica rambeau lmd). Stuff like that.

But in books like new avengers under bendis, it was "register by 12 o clock and we'd work something out to not make you do any heroing, just as long as we have you in a database or you're under arrest" or sth like that, where bendis really wanted to make a racism allegory I think (though jessica jones quit by going to canada instead)

And there was also the post civil war phase of characterization for carol that was just letting the unregistered heroes go when they were actively practicing (new avengers annual 2, one of the mighty avengers books during the venom bomb thing, new avengers 38) that seemed to be somewhat consistent i think within those books or convincing tony or her team to let em go.

[joetuss]

Peter Parker has a never-ending emotionally-stunting guilt complex


And somehow, at 15 years of age, he managed to push past that, and other forms of hell, plus the occasional vegetable being hurled at him...if some kid form the ok part of Queens can do it, why can't a Captain Marvel?


Carol has also left Earth behind in the past, usually after a traumatic experience.


You're absolutely right, and I think It'd be a nice change of pace if she put her head down, grit her teeth, and barreled through it for once.

[thehood]

It's not like things have been peachy for Carol over the years.

[joetuss]

You could say the same for just about anybody...except maybe Squirrel Girl.

[agharta75]

Things for Squirrel Girl have been nutty.

[shakalooloo]

At least he had a secret identity to hide behind. Everyone knows who Captain Marvel is.

[lego_joker]

Wasn't Peter (indirectly, at least) financially dependent on being Spider-Man? JJJ being the tightwad he is, I don't dare imagine what he'd pay if Peter stopped bringing in the Spidey pics.

[joetuss]

I think that was a lemons to lemonade situation. Peter may have been thinking, "sure I'll let this jackass run my name through the mud, if it means keeping Con Ed off of my Aunts back every month".

[freezer]

"Can you even be a hero with the whole world against you?"

Don't know. Why don't you ask Spider-Man? Or one of the X-Men? Or Jessica Drew AS SHE IS STANDING RIGHT BEHIND YOU?

And it's weirdly comforting to see 616's populace continuing their proud tradition of turning on their heroes at the drop of a hat.

[mazway_75]

Jessica: "Carol, luv, you do remember that time the Skrull queen impersonated me and became the face for a bloody global invasion?! You think I was accepted right back after that? Hang on, let me talk to Steve about how he's handling having been Hydra leader and dictator of America for a bit."

[thehood]

Jessica Jones too.

And the Hulk, but he's not there.

[agharta75]

Ugh. Wake me up when they un-retcon that stupid retcon.

[thehood]

So you never want to wake up? Wouldn't it be easier just to ignore any book with Carol?

[cyberghostface]

It's a saying.

[thehood]

"Un-retcon that stupid retcon" is a saying? Must be new.

It's hyperbole.


And in case you can't tell when someone isn't serious, yes i know you meant "Wake me up when". Obviously i wasn't being serious before either. My point being that it won't be changed anytime soon.

[cyberghostface]

I wasn’t the op of the previous comment, just thought your response was strange.

As for it being unretconned since they didn’t include it in her movie anything is possible. Stuff gets changed back all the time.

[starwolf_oakley]

Does the general public even know the Kree have attacked Earth in the past? The Skrulls, sure. The Kree, I'm not sure.

[lordultimus]

Ronan the Accusser has fought super heroes in public places, at least.

[broblawsky]

A public hearing on Ronan attacking Earth (and trying to devolve everyone into cavemen) was actually a major part of the original Kree-Skrull War story arc.

[lego_joker]

Yeh, I can still remember how that arc drew a (well-intentioned but hilariously hamfisted) parallel between those anti-alien hearings and McCarthyism.

[starwolf_oakley]

It seems the real H. Warren Craddick (the ones causing trouble was a Skrull) was never used again in Marvel. Like "I was replaced by a Skrull, I know how dangerous they can be!"

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/f/f2/H._Warren_Craddock_%28Earth-616%29_from_Avengers_Vol_1_97_0001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20091027202230

[mazway_75]

Carol: "Can you imagine this? Having folks turn on you and not trust you off of some footage?"

Wolverine, Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man and Fantastic Four just give her long slow looks.

Carol: "Exactly, you can never know how it feels!"

[deh_tommy]

laughs in X-Men

[zachbeacon]

Is that where you come back from the dead because the writer didn't know a different writer had you laugh yourself to death?

[stubbleupdate]

I wonder how Thompson felt last week when the Go back to where they came from became acceptable public discourse.

[thehood]

This was probably written months in advance, but yeah it's bad timing.

[ebailey140]

Bad timing? Just made it topical and true to life.

Besides, it's not like "Oh no! The alt-right Comicsgate crowd might start a campaign against Captain Marvel!" is something we need to sweat at this point. :)

[stubbleupdate]

Last I saw they were fighting themselves or not releasing their Battletoads comics.

[ebailey140]

But, again, this is Captain Marvel, the subject of the Comicsgate crowd's most epic and public fail. Her very existence has already driven them into psychotic rage. They made it their obsession to sink the movie, and it ended up making over a billion at the box office, proving Comicsgate to be impotent.

What they failed to understand is the big money in the comics industry doesn't come from the comics, themselves, but from movies, TV shows, cartoons, video games, toys, and merchandise. Big budget blockbusters do best when they're what are called four-quadrant movies, appealing to younger and older, male and female. In other words, they want the broadest audience possible. Diversity is a plus. Playing exclusively to the racist, homophobic, misogynists that make up the Comicsgate crowd, what they're pretty much demanding, would be very bad for business.

[thehood]

Depends on how they handle it.

[long_silence]

I didn't even realize she was still part of the Air Force

[dcbanacek]

Officers in the United States military can be recalled to active service if the need is felt by their respective branch. While it rarely happens....

However if she's been active duty all this time, then one has to wonder how she explained her being absent without leave (AWOL) when she was running around with the Starjammers.

Another however, is that if she's active duty, which in some ways makes sense "HEY JOIN THE AIR FORCE AND YOU TOO CAN BE A HERO LIKE CAPTAIN (real rank Colonel) MARVEL!", then she should be covered under this little thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9981

[long_silence]

It brings up uncomfortable questions about how an American Air Force officer basically had control over Earth's entire first line defense against alien invasions

[freezer]

That's Marvel for you. Continuity matters, until it doesn't.

[jlbarnett]

considering the coma and memory loss she was probably declared unfit for duty

[zachbeacon]

Yeah, this right here is why I never liked Carol. She cares more about being seen as a hero than being one. She'll happily grab retired heroes from their homes and throw them in secret prisons if it gets her a seat at the table.

(I really don't why they tried pairing her with Spider-Man for a while. Peter would find her insufferable.)

[zerocaloriecola]

ironic since the next arc is her pretending to be a villain to be a hero (or saving lives)

Though she didn't "happily grab heroes from their homes" (there was way more context to it and she was disillusioned with herself) and it wasn't for a "seat at the the table" since she rejected being on the avengers first (before the SHRA) and almost rejected being team leader for the mighty avengers but just had taken a sabbatical to deal with registration. In fact I do recall her sliding back on her decisions and just letting the heroes go multiple times, because she didn't feel like it was doing any good and she wasn't being a hero like she was trying to do.

And pete did find her insufferable but grew to like her (though of course, this was a time he hung out with wolverine and some others he may find offputting)

[zachbeacon]

"she didn't "happily grab heroes from their homes" "

The (Original) Prowler suffered a back injury at the end of the Clone Saga and didn't return to active hero duty until he was hired on as a Spider-Man stand-in in the Parker Industries era.

The ONE TIME we saw him in costume during the 00s was when Ms Marvel ordered a squad of "cape killers" to arrest a then-retired hero. Heck, he only had the costume ready because the Shroud tipped him off.

Also I'm under the impression that modern power-hungry Carol is a fairly new development. She got a taste of success in HoM and decided she liked it. Before that she was portrayed as a self-destructive drunk.

[zerocaloriecola]

"Prowler suffered a back injury at the end of the Clone Saga and didn't return to active hero duty until he was hired on as a Spider-Man stand-in in the Parker Industries era."

In the event, he was on active duty. Not really retired. In the battle damage report it is said "He recently returned to crime fighting, and when the SHRA became law, received tips to avoid capture". In the event, he was also being an active operating hero and said "I'm here trying to help people and you're trying to arrest me?" and his shield file shown in the comic said "illegally practicing superhero"
Within the context of that story he was out of retirement before the SHRA passed to have a D-lister arrested for being an active duty unreg hero after it did, i think.

"Also I'm under the impression that modern power-hungry Carol is a fairly new development. She got a taste of success in HoM and decided she liked it. Before that she was portrayed as a self-destructive drunk."

She was a self destructive alcoholic when busiek brought her back, but it was treated as a mental illness being a product of multiple traumas. When she cleaned up she helped in many missions, including saving the world during kang dynasty and was scouted by DHS for a high ranking position. They showed how alcoholism as a mental illness can affect you, and showed the differences in how much more competent and willing to accept responsibility a sober person can be.

House of M just made her realize she wasn't living up to her full potential as a hero, and while initially it was an inspiration it developed into a burden towards the end rather than "got a taste", and slowly across the course of the development stopped caring about stuff like popularity or being "seen as a hero" (which initially was just her trying to emulate other great heroes like captain america, stephen strange because she feels a truly great hero should inspire people as well). Like I remember her "greatest desire" during the war of the marvels was "to be free of the burdens of Ms marvel and carol danvers" but she still went out and did her job, and still tried to be better or the "best you can be" rather than the unhealthy "the greatest hero or best of the best" (which came with a PR angle)

modern writers "nick spencer *cough* *cough*" miss this.

[lieut_kettch]

Not in these scans: the panel of Carol, a USAF Major, at her JAG hearing with sergeant’s insignia on her sleeves.