NS: Brian Bendis interview
Oct. 22nd, 2019 09:54 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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scans_dailyBrian Bendis did an interview on the Word Balloon podcast on upcoming things on his run, including the Legion and the change released in solicits on Superman's secret identity. I thought I'd post the big points here for discussion.
The major points of the Word Balloon cast:
* There'll be a Superman: Villains oneshot to go with Superman: Heroes, that'll have Fraction and Rucka involved too. The two of them are going to be writing a much larger percentage of those then they did Leviathan Rising, with a mandate from Bendis of 'I already get to write Superman all the time, so if you have something you want to say with him right now this is the place for it'.
* He talked about how he sees this as continuing on the growth past the traditional Superman status quo kicked off by Jurgens and Rebirth.
* "I wrote down, I think I even talked in interviews, how it always feels like Clark is lying a little bit. Right? To protect something, and we all do it, and we all respect it, and we identify with it...but we're now in a different world. And he's a different man who's been through different things. We talk about it in the script that the young man who grew up and came to Metropolis to make his way, versus the father and husband and superhero icon is a different person, with different responsibilities to himself and to the world. And changes happened in both his relationships with his father and his son, and those are massive things...that makes a person step back and think about who they are and what they're proud of and what they want to represent in the world, and I think a lot of people can understand that truth a little bit. 'Wait, I'm not the same person I was, and that choice I made back then may not be the right choice for me now.'"
* He's surprised they're letting him do it when he's pitching it as a forever thing.
* His response to people saying they've already done this: "Yeah, they did it on every cover of every Superman comic from the 1950s to 1972! So yes, I know! People think I don't know that? And I know that Lois had outed him. This is a very different story."
* His Daredevil was about Matt being outed after years of dancing on the edge and a tumble basically being inevitable; Superman by contrast is owning this as a choice after a life of major decisions being as Bendis sees it essentially being thrust upon him.
* Superman delivers a big speech on this, basically Clark making the case for this to the DCU.
* Whether this paints a target on the backs of his supporting cast was the first thing he was asked upon pitching it, and the story addresses that; he also notes that every supervillain in the world already knew that everyone at the Daily Planet was close to Superman, that really being far more widely-known public knowledge than any association of theirs with Kent.
* Talking with people made him realize just how much the very concept of the secret identity has fallen out of the pop culture discussion thanks to the MCU, and how the primary equivalent cultural association these days is anonymous folks online where that often manifests in far more troubling ways (not that he considers that at all an equivalent to superhero secret identities, but that it's a huge association now).
* As Superman's older and has more of a sense of how people are reacting to him - both as a matter of empathy and as a matter of his super-senses being able to tell if someone's lying - he doesn't need Clark as much anymore to be certain whether a given person is speaking to him as a person rather than essentially the Super-Pope, so he's willing to give up that shield. It may mean losing half the conversations where people will open up to just Clark in a way they wouldn't to Superman, but as he sees it it's more honest this way and he hopes the people he interacts with with feel that honesty and respond in kind.
* Bendis is less interested in the immediate event-scale shock of the reveal than seeing the consequences of this settling in for everyone involved as the new 'real' as that was what really enamored him when he did this with Daredevil; something huge is doing to go down with Toyman in particular in response to this.
* The final page of Legion #1 is going to have a reveal relating to the timeline that Bendis basically all but confirms is going to have to do with the new DC history and 5G.
* First issue of Legion hits the ground running in terms of 'here's the world, here's what the Legion does and what it's fighting for and against, here's the McGuffin', with more space for the characters after the first couple issues.
* He was blindsided by how much people absolutely hate Mon-El until he was informed it was because of his depiction on Supergirl; Mon-El's a favorite of his and he's really fighting not to lean on him as a favorite of his ala Luke Cage.
* Everyone's going to have in-universe ID displays that'll help catch Jon (and the readers) up on what their deal is, taken with permission from Fraction's similar character-tagging gimmick in X-Men. Later on they'll fool around and hack each others' tags. Letterer Dave Sharp went through 70+ possible designs for these things given they're going to be everywhere so much of the time.
* The formation of the United Planets is going to continue to be a huge thing in Superman, and Bendis is getting a kick out of simultaneously telling the stories of its Year One and Year One Thousand.
* The status of Ma and Pa still can't be brought up until Doomsday Clock's done, nor can he talk at all about the connection between Doomsday Clock's Saturn Girl and the one in Legion.
The major points of the Word Balloon cast:
* There'll be a Superman: Villains oneshot to go with Superman: Heroes, that'll have Fraction and Rucka involved too. The two of them are going to be writing a much larger percentage of those then they did Leviathan Rising, with a mandate from Bendis of 'I already get to write Superman all the time, so if you have something you want to say with him right now this is the place for it'.
* He talked about how he sees this as continuing on the growth past the traditional Superman status quo kicked off by Jurgens and Rebirth.
* "I wrote down, I think I even talked in interviews, how it always feels like Clark is lying a little bit. Right? To protect something, and we all do it, and we all respect it, and we identify with it...but we're now in a different world. And he's a different man who's been through different things. We talk about it in the script that the young man who grew up and came to Metropolis to make his way, versus the father and husband and superhero icon is a different person, with different responsibilities to himself and to the world. And changes happened in both his relationships with his father and his son, and those are massive things...that makes a person step back and think about who they are and what they're proud of and what they want to represent in the world, and I think a lot of people can understand that truth a little bit. 'Wait, I'm not the same person I was, and that choice I made back then may not be the right choice for me now.'"
* He's surprised they're letting him do it when he's pitching it as a forever thing.
* His response to people saying they've already done this: "Yeah, they did it on every cover of every Superman comic from the 1950s to 1972! So yes, I know! People think I don't know that? And I know that Lois had outed him. This is a very different story."
* His Daredevil was about Matt being outed after years of dancing on the edge and a tumble basically being inevitable; Superman by contrast is owning this as a choice after a life of major decisions being as Bendis sees it essentially being thrust upon him.
* Superman delivers a big speech on this, basically Clark making the case for this to the DCU.
* Whether this paints a target on the backs of his supporting cast was the first thing he was asked upon pitching it, and the story addresses that; he also notes that every supervillain in the world already knew that everyone at the Daily Planet was close to Superman, that really being far more widely-known public knowledge than any association of theirs with Kent.
* Talking with people made him realize just how much the very concept of the secret identity has fallen out of the pop culture discussion thanks to the MCU, and how the primary equivalent cultural association these days is anonymous folks online where that often manifests in far more troubling ways (not that he considers that at all an equivalent to superhero secret identities, but that it's a huge association now).
* As Superman's older and has more of a sense of how people are reacting to him - both as a matter of empathy and as a matter of his super-senses being able to tell if someone's lying - he doesn't need Clark as much anymore to be certain whether a given person is speaking to him as a person rather than essentially the Super-Pope, so he's willing to give up that shield. It may mean losing half the conversations where people will open up to just Clark in a way they wouldn't to Superman, but as he sees it it's more honest this way and he hopes the people he interacts with with feel that honesty and respond in kind.
* Bendis is less interested in the immediate event-scale shock of the reveal than seeing the consequences of this settling in for everyone involved as the new 'real' as that was what really enamored him when he did this with Daredevil; something huge is doing to go down with Toyman in particular in response to this.
* The final page of Legion #1 is going to have a reveal relating to the timeline that Bendis basically all but confirms is going to have to do with the new DC history and 5G.
* First issue of Legion hits the ground running in terms of 'here's the world, here's what the Legion does and what it's fighting for and against, here's the McGuffin', with more space for the characters after the first couple issues.
* He was blindsided by how much people absolutely hate Mon-El until he was informed it was because of his depiction on Supergirl; Mon-El's a favorite of his and he's really fighting not to lean on him as a favorite of his ala Luke Cage.
* Everyone's going to have in-universe ID displays that'll help catch Jon (and the readers) up on what their deal is, taken with permission from Fraction's similar character-tagging gimmick in X-Men. Later on they'll fool around and hack each others' tags. Letterer Dave Sharp went through 70+ possible designs for these things given they're going to be everywhere so much of the time.
* The formation of the United Planets is going to continue to be a huge thing in Superman, and Bendis is getting a kick out of simultaneously telling the stories of its Year One and Year One Thousand.
* The status of Ma and Pa still can't be brought up until Doomsday Clock's done, nor can he talk at all about the connection between Doomsday Clock's Saturn Girl and the one in Legion.
no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 02:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 03:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 02:19 am (UTC)*FINGERS CROSSED*
Bendis, Doomsday Clock and how everything fits
Date: 2019-10-23 02:20 am (UTC)I found it fascinating and, while pure speculation, is worth looking at. It does go into detail how Bendis' current works may be tied into what's going on.
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/10/02/long-read-a-great-big-doomsday-clock-dc-comics-conspiracy-theory/
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Date: 2019-10-23 02:25 am (UTC)I'm interested in where Bendis is coming from with regard to ditching secret identities, that they're really not a huge part of the superhero cultural image anymore due to the MCU. The DCU has always held onto them a little more firmly, with most of their heroes still having them even as many of Marvel's heroes (in both the films and comics) have either ditched them or never really had them. For me personally, I don't mind the streamlining and ditching of conceptually unnecessary secret IDs (like, Captain America and Thor, imo, didn't really need them) but doing so often leads to the ditching of non-superhero supporting cast members in favour of superheroes only ever hanging out with other superheroes, which for me always makes them just a little more creepy, vaguely fascistic "here's a group of essentially divinely ordained leaders who will mete out justice and lead the world from on high." Given that Bendis is (according to leaks) doing a Superman: President of Earth storyline, that's something he's going to have to confront.
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Date: 2019-10-23 02:47 am (UTC)I think the MCU is only part of it since he also mentions Anons and trolls who hide in anonimity as another factor.
Basically less "Secret identities are impossible to hold on the era of social media" and more "in this times, in which we have horrible people using anonimity as a way to to live free of consequences, having our heroes hiding doesn't feel right"
Now, that part I don't agree with. There are plenty of people who use anonimity on the web for genuine reasons such as closeted people, people trying to hide from abusers, etc.
Hell, if anything, the whole "must keep my identity a secret to protect my loved ones" has been proven to be true, given the many cases of Doxing of internet celebrities and activists in the last few years.
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Date: 2019-10-23 11:41 am (UTC)I loathe the whole "if you've nothing to fear..." argument. Even when it is cloaked in language like Bendis's.
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Date: 2019-10-23 12:37 pm (UTC)Hell, during GG, assholes would masturbate over pictures of Zoe Quinn and mail them to her parents. And that's just the "gross" stuff. Plenty more threaten to murder female activists and their families in extremely graphic details.
Just take a look at the stuff people who work at abortion clinics have to deal with. Psychos who stalk their children is so disturbingly common, many have to leave the job and their homes.
On a much smaller scale, even innocent stuff like writing fanfiction can get you fired if your workplace hears of it (and these days, pretty much all workplaces check your social media accounts). Last job meeting I was in, they were reluctant to hire a guy because his latest FB pictures showed him making funny faces at a family barbecue, which according to them meant that he could be written off as an idiot. You can't even joke around in your free time anymore.
I understand why Bendis feels strongly about coming off anon. When you get constantly attacked by tons of people who say disturbing things about you and your family, and you know from their cowardly attitude that they wouldn't say any of it face to face, you can certainly start to hate the anonymity that lets those dicks get away with it.
But anonymity also protects innocent people.
And in comics, taking your mask off when you have civilian family and friends means you might as well hang a sign on your door. "ALL YOU CAN MURDER."
no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 03:07 pm (UTC)"And in comics, taking your mask off when you have civilian family and friends means you might as well hang a sign on your door. "ALL YOU CAN MURDER."
I will be fair and say that Bendis does make a good point that Clark revealing himself would not necessarily make the daily planet any more of a target, since the public is already well aware that Superman is good friends with everyone there.
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Date: 2019-10-23 04:31 pm (UTC)I'd actually like to see a scene of Clark asking Jimmy's advice about making the big revelation, implying that he's been in on the secret all along.
The status of Martha and Jonathan Kent moving forward is the big question mark as far as I'm concerned. I recall Perry White having to talk an angry Lois down from writing an expose on Superman being raised by the Kents (back when she still believed they were two separate people) as that would be signing their death warrants. That would still be an issue if they return.
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Date: 2019-10-23 02:49 am (UTC)Wonder Woman hasn't really had or needed a secret identity since post-Crisis. Green Lanterns don't have them. And when Wally West was the Flash, he went for most of his time completely without a secret identity and everyone was cool with it.
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Date: 2019-10-23 03:47 am (UTC)Superman and Batman (and by extension most of the Batclan) are indeed holdouts as far as secret identities go.
When it comes to maintaining secret identities, there seem to be two approaches: ones like Batman and Superman and Spider-Man who maintain them out of sheer longevity/status quo, and newer characters (like Kamala or Miles) who have them because they're built from the same templates/trope by writers trying to evoke certain kinds of storytelling.
In other words, writers who want the complications which come from maintaining two identities and the secrets which accompany them.
But as we move forward in an age where media and cameras and information are omnipresent, where it's harder and harder to come up with plausible ways to hide identities, the trend is definitely towards public-facing heroes, either right from the start, or just as a matter of change.
I give Superman five years tops before he's reverted back to using Clark Kent, though. This status is too persistent not to come back once Bendis is done/Didio is replaced/they reboot the universe/whatever. :)
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Date: 2019-10-23 12:47 pm (UTC)I do think there is a huge difference between keeping your identity a secret from the public (and therefore your enemies), and from your family.
It makes a lot of sense if you don't want Kingpin to know where to send hitmen to shoot your loved ones. But it's idiotic to keep important intel from the people who live with you. Especially when keeping them ignorant actually puts them in more danger.
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Date: 2019-10-23 01:55 pm (UTC)Worst time was when I was 12 and head a fairly significant medical problem and our family and friends came together and all agreed that it would lead to significant bullying of me if not carefully presented and that it should be discussed with only certain people and even then presented to them in a specific way. Less than a week later someone asked "how is OwlBrigade1 getting on?" and [verbal burble of everything and in a way guaranteed to cause maximum confusion on the issue], causing me several years of horrific treatment that straight up left me with PTSD. The excuse: "They caught me off guard" on an issue that they were told specifically to be on guard over. Superhero secret identity; I think I'd mindwipe them myself if they learned of it. They don't even know my screen names.
And the other? They are just a self centered idiot who would, if they learned I was a flying superhero, go base jumping off cliffs without a parachute on purpose for the thrill of it. I'd be tempted to pick a fight with a world ending supervillain on the same day they tried it just so I could play "the greater good" card.
What I'm saying is that if I had a superhero secret identity, telling my family about it would the thing that pushed me over into being a supervillain. Family; can't live with them, illegal to bury them under the patio. Ugh.
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Date: 2019-10-23 02:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 02:58 pm (UTC)Then again, she's been slowly de-aged in recent years, so...
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Date: 2019-10-23 06:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 10:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-24 02:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 05:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 09:35 pm (UTC)And Kamala Khan and Miles Morales.
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Date: 2019-10-23 06:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 08:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 08:52 am (UTC)If Clark weren't married, how does Superman pay the bills? If folks can find him and sue him for damages and villains can drag him into court for assault how does he get anything done? Does he have to get endorsements, license merchandise?
The path of a professional superhero hasn't been established yet in the DCU that isn't a government agent. Eventually the legality of beating people in the heads for crimes when you have no legal power to do so has to come up. Lex Luthor is going to keep an out Clark Kent in court for the rest of eternity, even if its merely for fraud on Kent's coverage and 'interviews' with Superman.
I'm not just flinging poop, though. There is a solution; you have to show the steps to becoming a professional superhero, either with Clark establishing the path or having him investigate how to do it and meet with professional heroes that already are doing it, or did it in the past.
Because right now all you have is Booster Gold and he was a sham and doing it for the endorsements and the money, or the JLU that offered a structure and pay-checks and I remember Wally setting up the JL teleporter in his house.
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Date: 2019-10-23 10:20 am (UTC)If the setting is real world unless stated otherwise, both sides are mysthically powered and fighting over some mysthical powers while disinterested in mundane world politics. This applies to variety of media, from magical girls series to Fate franchise. Magical girls don't fight criminals, they fight against villains who are interested in fighting magical girls specifically. The villains are not interested in capturing Usagi Tsukino, they are interested in the Silver Crystal Sailor Moon holds.
Another setting is futuristic. This version often has superpowered soldiers using technology to fight similarly technological enemies. Basically a futuristic war story. Mecha series tend to be like this. Those heroes are treated as real world soldiers. Here, the villains wouldn't care less about Amuro Ray, it's the Gundam that they are interested in.
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Date: 2019-10-23 12:54 pm (UTC)Shows that have adult superheroes, like Tiger&Bunny, do tend to have secret identities. And bad guys going after their civilian loved ones is an important issue.
Heck, even in Sailor Moon, at some point the bad guys target Naru specifically because they had noticed that Sailor Moon seemed to be very friendly towards her. And, as the series goes on, the Sailors just flat out stop having friends that are not superpowered.
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Date: 2019-10-23 06:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-23 02:39 pm (UTC)Still, this'll be interesting. I've credited Mark Waid's Daredevil for inspiring me to live a less "partitioned" life, and Bendis certainly understands the appeal of Superman a lot better than some others who've come in with torches in the last decade, so I'm cautiously optimistic.
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Date: 2019-10-23 03:09 pm (UTC)The old saw about protecting your loved ones still applies, and might even be more so in this present era.
Secret identities are privacy. Today, privacy is almost a dirty word as people post every detail about their lives online so that anyone can read them. Some people might still like their private lives private.
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Date: 2019-10-23 04:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-24 01:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-24 03:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-25 01:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-10-24 08:31 am (UTC)(And yes, you can point to *individual* stories where it did cause such a problem, I'm sure. But those are isolated stories. The point is it was never presented as such a problem that the lack of a secret identity couldn't function as a perfectly fine status quo for the character.)
It's only a problem if the writer wants to make it a problem. That might be unrealistic, but if it is, the example of all those characters I just listed shows that it's the kind of implausibility readers don't actually mind. Nobody complains about how it doesn't make sense that nobody ever goes after Wonder Man's mom.
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Date: 2019-10-24 02:24 pm (UTC)Which, to be fair, does apply to Clark here.