The Joker 80th Anniversary 100-Page Super Spectacular

[cyberghostface]

"All throughout comics and Batman and Joker history, the Joker is really pushing the idea that Batman needs the Joker, you know, 'you're nothing without me, you need the other side of the coin.' The idea that there is this symbiotic relationship. I liked the idea of flipping that around: What is Joker without the Batman like? He's been trying to kill the Batman for years, but what if he actually succeeded?

So now he's having this existential crisis where he realizes that the only enemy he's ever respected, as he says in the comic, the only audience who ever understood the joke that he was trying to tell is gone. So now he realizes that without Batman, there isn't really anything left for him to do. There's no-one that he respects enough to appreciate what his anarchic criminal comedy routine is all about.

I actually think that one of the better Batman movies in recent recent history is The Lego Batman Movie. It's actually really good, and the idea that the Joker desperately needs to be in this relationship with Batman, — I think throughout comics history, that's been expressed far more as 'Batman needs the Joker,' how much he needs to look like a nemesis to fight against, a worthy adversary, but I don't know to what extent that's really been explored from the Joker's side of it. So that, for me, was the catalyst to the story." -- Gary Whitta

Comments

[crinos]

...>Well I mean its not going sane, but I guess its a step in the right direction.

And Joker would be the kind of asshole to go out on a DMV Joke.

(This actually reminds me of a character from the rpg supplement GURPS villain) an incredibly sadistic IRS agent who is always smiling and cheerful, and loves to single out random people and destroy them financially by befriending them and tricking them into fucking up their income taxes.

[zachbeacon]

The writer quote is baffling.

"Instead of focusing on Batman's dependance on the Joker*, I'm going to explore the totally original idea of the Joker needing Batman**"

*What? I don't think even the Joker believes that.

**A concept that has already been beaten to death with a crowbar by some of the greatest writers in comics.

[silicondream]

Yes! Why would Batman be dependent on the Joker, or any other particular nemesis? We know what made him what he is: random, traumatic violence. That's what he became Batman to fight. His parents weren't killed by a "supervillain," they were killed by a random guy who wanted money.

As long as there's violence to prevent or avenge, Batman still has a mission and an identity. He can't stop, Joker or no Joker.

And of course the Joker needs Batman. Half of Batman's rogues need him. They're artists whose compulsion to perform is so strong they're willing to kill for it, and Batman is their ideal critic and audience. This is old news.

It really is a very silly quote.

[cyberghostface]

Maybe not 'dependent' but I think Batman has a stronger connection to Joker that he wouldn't have for Riddler or Penguin. Not canon to the comics obviously but Arkham City showed Batman in a depressive state after Joker died and in the Injustice comics Superman accused Batman of mourning for Joker and missing him. Oh and this is canon but in Europa Bane's whole motivation was to prove to Batman that he needed Joker.

[zachbeacon]

Maybe it's just the Spider-Man fan in me but I'm more partial to the "hero gone wrong" villain archetype than the "hero's opposite" one. I find a guy like Two-Face is a much more interesting Batman villain than one like the Joker.

Also Riddler's whole thing is proving he's smarter than Batman so I don't really think he works without him either.

[lordultimus]

"I've known many men in my life, but few I care to remember."

Yeesh, Diana, what the hell?

[zachbeacon]

Devil's advocate: When you come from an island of immortal ladies it's probably best not to get too attached to the goldfish people.

Still ... cold.

[armycat23]

Diana always had a bit of hypocritical narcissism....but in this case I think its partly done because man-hating is all the rage nowadays ...and who better to voice it?

[icon_uk]

Pretty much anyone?

Or better yet, don't have anyone express that sentiment in the first place.

[magicrubbish]

Urrgghh no wonder I never liked her.

[deh_tommy]

Hypocritical narcissism? I mean, I have complaints over how Wonder Woman gets written occasionally, but even in her worst incarnations I’ve never really seen her depicted as a narcissist (unless you count the unaired pilot, but that was pretty much in name only).

[armycat23]

Narcissism, by definition, can be an admiration for oneself.
In Diana's case, she often proclaims herself to be the symbol of women or of her people....and shes often judged that herself and her people as better than other people. A narcissistic personality also is described as arrogance. Arrogance by definition is being full of self worth.....which you can see in many examples when she praises the amazons in the comics or thinks that men are inferior, in general, in various comics and cartoon shows/movies.

[strejdaking]

I'm usually not this absolute, but I do feel safe saying no, she definitely didn't.

[shakalooloo]

Feels weird to have the Joker interally monolguing this realisation, rather than explaining it to some poor hostage or random passerby. Better to have someone actually not taking his jokes with good humour than have him tell it to us directly.

[thanekos]

The coloring on the last page makes it look like the Joker's blending in at his new job by rubbing bits of Clayface all over himself.

[icon_uk]

Which, to be fair, would be neither the weirdest nor most disturbing thing he's ever done.