scans_daily | The Immortal Hulk #35 - "A Certain Amount of Light"

Those first Harpy appearances, they literally read like somebody's dream diary. I was kind of reading this going like, "Oh my god, somebody's just putting it all out on the page there." But there's something so much more uncanny and eerie about that. -- Al Ewing

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

armycat23

I actually like how a less intelligent hulk stupified bruce by "banner would rather die than let hulk live."

From:

shadowpsykie

i am confused by Bruce can accept (for the billionth time) that Hulk is a part of who he is, but not accept that Betty/Harpy is a part of Betty....

also can he NOT wear the hawaiian shirts now that he isn;t Joe anymore>

From:

donnblake

I think Joe's still driving a fair amount of the time- I read that first panel with him taking off the sunglasses as transitioning from Joe to Bruce.

From:

locuatico

well, if I were to be kinda political... *ahem*

He is uncomfortable with the Harpy form because, as a man, he is uncomfortable to be faced with a woman that doesn't care to fit society's standards of beauty.
Betty's Harpy form is clearly monstruous and not traditionally "feminine" or "sexy" in a way apt for male consumption, he is taking it as "wrong" or "bad" for Betty to be in that form, something to be "fixed".

He cannot accept Harpy is part of Betty because he cannot accept that Betty would want to look like "that".

From:

dan_ingram

I don't think that's a fair assessment of their current relationship.

Betty hasn't had any issue shifting back to human form around others at all.

But around Bruce, she's always in harpy mode, always short and blunt with him. Before becoming Harpy, Betty was very upset with Bruce for coming back to life, and not contacting her. She's basically throwing her 'Hulk' in his face every chance she gets, meaning to upset Bruce.

From:

erikred

"I want to see the woman I love!"
"... No. No, you don't."

This could be read in so many ways.

"No, you don't (because this *is* me, and you refuse to see that)."
or
"No, you don't (because everything you just said is a description of your Hulk form, not mine)."
or
"No, you don't (because you wouldn't like what you see)."
or
"No, you don't (because I wouldn't like what you see)."

And then that capper:

"I can't live in your cage."

Is it:

"I can't live in your cage (that you've built to hold me)"?
or
"I can't live in your cage (that you've built to hold in yourself)"?

Also, I cannot even begin to work out if Samson is the worst or best therapist ever.

From:

dan_ingram

Honestly, I think we're in a very low point for Bruce and Betty's relationship.

Just before she was shot in the head, she was about to read Bruce the riot act for engineering his own death and then not contacting her after his resurrection (only doing so when Bruce needed someone after going to hell).

She's only spoken to Bruce as Harpy, despite having full control over her transformation.

From:

zachbeacon

Well I think Ashley Kafka is still dead so there's an opening for worst.

At least Moonstone and Faustus were actively trying fuck up their patients so I guess they were good at being bad.

Honestly I sympathize a little with Lenny after the Jenkins run* (he's dealing with a walking WMD, so what are his responsibilities to the world in general?) but he's done SO MANY things before and since that are unethical and/or incompetent. Didn't he try to get with Betty early on?

Apparently Quicksilver thinks a lot of him ... though I'm not sure if that makes him good or bad either.

*Where we find out he gas-lite Bruce/Hulk into thinking the Professor is a composite personality instead of just another Hulk.

From:

deh_tommy

Man, I freaking love this book.

From:

locuatico

Personally, I see it more as a defense-mechanism towards the guy who has kept on bringing drama to her life.

I also feel like, if that is enough to upset Bruce, it only reinforces my point that it is Bruce the one who has a problem with Betty's Harpy form and, because HE has a problem with it, he frames it as the Harpy form being the problem.

From:

dan_ingram

Honestly, if I were Bruce, I'd have a hard time accepting Betty's harpy form too. It was first forced on her by a bad guy to kill him , emerged after she was fatally shot in the head, and something she later used to crack his chest open and eat his heart.

On a practical level, Bruce is right in that she won't speak to him. Betty barely talks in her harpy form, while being able to shift forms at will.

If anyone knows about using a gamma form to hide from life's problems, it's Bruce ;)

Not saying that Betty doesn't have good reason to be angry, mind. Bruce engineered his own death and didn't reach out after his resurrection. He only returned to her after being traumatized by his visit to hell

From:

zachbeacon

Yeah, Bruce didn't deal well with Red She-Hulk either and she was clearly Betty (or at least a part of her). Harpy doesn't even seem human a lot of the time.

From:

bruinsfan

I don't get the sense that it's an actual alter ego though. More like a mask Betty puts on when she's angry and hurt and just finished with all Bruce's BS and not willing to give an inch toward his comfort. She still seems capable of relating normally to Samson while wearing that form, for example.

From:

zachbeacon

Much like the Classic She-Hulk is basically just Jen with more confidence, I saw Red She-Hulk as basically Betty (maybe without fear, maybe with less of a filter, whatever).

If Harpy is really a part of Betty (and I think she is) then she's a part that is kept buried pretty deep so I could understand Bruce not recognizing his own wife.

Though, the last few years of Jen aside, Bruce is the only* "Hulk" that drastically changes who he is when he transforms so there's likely a lot of projecting here.

*Well maybe the Leader too; I'm not sure if he was still an ass when he was a janitor.

From:

zerocaloriecola

Hulks are a representation of your perception of your inner self.
Maybe bruce doesnt like Betty's perception.

From:

deh_tommy

Are Hulks representative of how you perceive your inner self, or are they actual representations of your inner self? If the former, what does that say about Banner that Hulk is either an introverted brute with serious anger issues or pretty much evil incarnate? ...yikes, does Betty really think of herself as a literal shrill harpy always on her ex-husband’s case? And then this kind of brings up the topic if Hulks are shadows, the id, their own personalities or what?

From:

starwolf_oakley

There's "inner self" and there's "what I wish I was more like."
Jennifer Walters becomes outgoing and more sexually uninhibited (or playfully flirtatious, depending).
Leonard Samson becomes a charming superhero.
Samuel Sterns becomes really, really smart.

So, Betty wishes she was more like... this?
Able to stand up for herself with the power to be taken seriously, all right. And flight... Well, was Thunderbolt Ross in the Air Force? I've heard worse origin stories that "I grew up near Air Force bases and thought flying was the best job you could have."

And now Betty Ross is Hal Jordan. I love this board.

From:

zachbeacon

The Gargoyle must have had VERY low self-esteem.

From:

deh_tommy

So the red Hulk (well, red She-Hulk, but still) is a Green Lantern but the green Hulk is a more akin to a Red Lantern. I guess that’s fitting Rick Jones is (or at least was) blue.

From:

zachbeacon

Given how often the Destiny Force manifested as "summon and boost my hero friends while hiding behind them", Rick was born to be a Blue Lantern even without the Hulk stuff.

The original Abomination would probably fit the Sinestro Corp pretty well.

Larfleeze is totally going to kill the Leader though.

From:

zerocaloriecola

It depends. Like in immortal hulk 7 he calls out jennifer saying "she-hulk is all that you wanted the world to see you were". In slott's she hulk this also seemed to be the case, like with Abomination, he was ugly because he thought of himself that way.

Of course, your "inner self" can also embody or include your desires you don't necessarily act on because of either impulse control or because of lack of confidence (jen) or maybe some physical limitation.

And with the physical appearance. I mean there has to be some subjective perception that is represented. Like with leonard, he admired superheroes and so his gamma mutate form looks like a classic superhero with good muscular proportions, dashing looks etc, but he does have to have a mental image of a superhero

Ewing also played with some trans issues and their parallel to the hulk, and that part is about self identity and self-image/perception.

Edited Date: 2020-08-14 11:15 am (UTC)

From:

zachbeacon

I think it depends on the writer. Personally I see Bruce's transformations as just giving physical form to his multiple personalities while Jen (Classic), Thunderbolt, Betty (She-Hulk), Rick (A-Bomb), Samson, and Blonsky are just themselves with the added confidence boost of knowing they're walking tanks. Langkowski seems similar but Sassy was doing demon possession retcons before it was cool.

Jen (Modern), Betty (Harpy), and Rick (Hulk) seem like weird outliers to me.

Its hard for me to judge the Leader and Scaar because I don't have much of a sense of who they are outside of their "Hulks".

Plus Leader (along with Gargoyle and half of Riot Squad) never seemed all that "Hulky" to me anyway. Harpy only feels like the odd Hulk out if you don't remember Soul Man, Jailbait, and Hotshot.

From:

deh_tommy

Personally, I always saw the Hulks as a kind of Nutty Professor/Jekyll & Hyde type ironic deal where they turn into almost the opposite of who they were originally, and given enough time those personas may or may not eventually bleed into each other. Intelligent, mild mannered Bruce Banner became a not-so-intelligent, violently angry yet gentle-ish giant, mousy and painfully shy Jen Walters became confident and boisterous, unremarkable errand man Samuel Stern becomes the incredible Leader, etc.

That characters and stories like the Hulks can be reinterpreted and reinvented like they have and still be recognisably them is part of why they’ve lasted this long, and I think that’s pretty neat.

From:

zerocaloriecola

In banner's case, he has Multiple personality disorder, so the gamma energy brings out those personas, but they get amplified by his perception of them, atleast that's how I understand it. They've also been formed because of childhood abuse so they're definitely repressed parts of him.

See, as a child bruce had it beaten into him literally by his dad, that he was a complete monster and evil. Its hard not to internalize that into your self image. So you'd see a version of that as Devil hulk.

There's a part of him that wants to be alone and lashes out angrily. But its because he actually does want to be with people, he's just afraid of getting hurt. And that perception makes the Savage hulk.

Then there's Joe fixit, his repressed sexual/deviant side, a teenager's idea of an adult's desires and all that. And bruce perceives it as sleezy, hence you get Joe Fixit.

And so on.

I'll post another of my comment here

[It depends. Like in immortal hulk 7 he calls out jennifer saying "she-hulk is all that you wanted the world to see you were". In slott's she hulk this also seemed to be the case, like with Abomination, he was ugly because he thought of himself that way.

Of course, your "inner self" can also embody or include your desires you don't necessarily act on because of either impulse control or because of lack of confidence (jen) or maybe some physical limitation.

And with the physical appearance. I mean there has to be some subjective perception that is represented. Like with leonard, he admired superheroes and so his gamma mutate form looks like a classic superhero with good muscular proportions, dashing looks etc, but he does have to have a mental image of a superhero

Ewing also played with some trans issues and their parallel to the hulk, and that part is about self identity and self-image/perception.]

This is my idea of how hulk works based on the mantlo run, PAD, Pak, Slott and now Ewing.

Edited Date: 2020-08-14 11:17 am (UTC)

From:

zachbeacon

I like it. I remember a fan letter from back when there were a lot less Hulks saying that they represent various stages of development. Savage Hulk is a toddler who is prone to tantrums, Fixit is an older child playing dress up and pretending to be an adult, ect. I'm not sure how all the others fit but - considering Devil Hulk's goal is burning it all down and starting over - I can't help but see the parallels to current events.

From:

zerocaloriecola

Some of these things have been acknowledged in canon.

The savage hulk is indeed a child prone to tantrums but was also formed by a abused toddler trying to hide from pain and lashing out as seen in Incredible Hulk 227, 312, 377.

Fixit being a child's idea of a grown up is also there, in the Incoming part written by Ewing for his hulk, you see this to be the case where fixits talking to samson about where he came from.

Of course the problem is that many writers just treat it as powerup that makes you talk dumb and become green.

From:

zachbeacon

Well yeah, that's the thing; Hulk and co are very prone to retcons. PAD laid down his version of how the Hulk works* and then other writers contradicted him (sometimes for better and sometimes for worse). Then other writers contradicted them. The cycle kept continuing until now we've added demonic possession to it.

(Though, if we count Sassy, the demon thing isn't all that new either)

Granted, if there's one writer capable of reconciling a tangled mess of continuity into something coherent, its Ewing.

*I'm sure others had a "this is the definitive Hulk explanation" story before that but my knowledge of of early Hulk is really spotty.

From:

deh_tommy

That’s a bit sexist and superficial, no? I think that goes a lot deeper than that.

From:

locuatico

possibly. but everything the comic has done says that Betty, in no way, has actually refused to speak to Bruce, she has only put the condition that he must do so in that form. Why that is and if it is intentional hasn't been confirmed yet.

They haven't spoken in weeks... because Bruce always backs away at Betty's harpy form.
Hell, even in these scans Bruce is shown as literally giving Betty the back while telling Samson how hard it is for HIM not being able to speak to Betty.

He has complained he has been wanting to talk with Betty "for weeks" but his solution was no solution and then got angry that his solution of not doing anything ended up not acomplishing anything.

Meanwhile, his different hulksonas have been able to walk around seemingly regardless of people's general feelings about them.

This to me speaks to the real issue of women being expected to make men feel comfortable and conversations should be done to comfort to them, first.

From:

scorntx

"This is me."

That takes ominous undertones with the "they are themselves, but they are also me" mantra of the One Below.

Betty is the woman Bruce loves... but she's also the Red Harpy. But it goes the other way around.

Like how the Hulks represent different bits of Bruce, while still being their own individuals.

Hulk is Hulk is Hulk... but Hulk is still part of Banner, same as Joe and Devil and the Worldbreaker and all the others (wherever they've all gotten to...)

It is her. It's just not all of her.
(Makes y' wonder if there's a tetchy Red She-Hulk locked up somewhere in Betty's mind...)

From:

trooper924

I just had the mental image of Red She-Hulk literally tearing her way out of Red Harpy. ("I'm tired of you hogging the driver's seat!")

From:

dan_ingram

...don't give Ewing ideas.

From:

deh_tommy

Give Ewing ALL the ideas.

From:

scorntx

Well, it's already happened with Bruce...

From:

thehood

Red Harpy is a mix of her Harpy form and Red She-Hulk forms, i think this form is meant to be all of Betty.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Profile

Scans Daily

Extras

Founded by girl geeks and members of the slash fandom,

scans_daily strives to provide an atmosphere which is LGBTQ-friendly, anti-racist, anti-ableist, woman-friendly and otherwise discrimination and harassment free.

Bottom line: If slash, feminism or anti-oppressive practice makes you react negatively, scans_daily is probably not for you.

Please read the community ethos and rules before posting or commenting.

March 2026

S	M	T	W	T	F	S
1	2	3	4	5	6	7
8	9	10	11	12	13	14
15	16	17	18	19	20	21
22	23	24	25	26	27	28
29	30	31

Bringing the crack since December 2003

The Immortal Hulk #35 - "A Certain Amount of Light"

Links