Juggernaut #4: Scalpel to the Soul

[superboyprime]

"I've noticed that in some of the reviews and comments for the Juggernaut limited series. The reviewers can't wrap their heads around a 5 issue series that is structured as self-contained issues with two building subplots, one speaking to story, the other to theme." - Fabian Nicieza

Comments

[themajesticmoose]

Since Juggernaut stopped this woman from doing the right thing here by preventing her from killing Zola for some baffling reason, I really hope he's the next target when it comes to mutantkind's mission to eradicate all forms of anti-mutant AI from existence

I'd love to see Sage turn that ingenious virus she created on Zola and watch this nazi trash can burn from the inside out

[cygnia]

Seriously, if you have a chance to permanently put down a nazi -- YOU TAKE IT!

[themajesticmoose]

Right?

Juggernaut's "Reasoning" here just reminds me of that bit in First Class where Erik is out to kill Shaw and Charles is like "We can be the better men" and Erik's response is "We're already better"

And I am 100% in agreement with Erik on that score. Both because honestly you don't have to do anything other than "Not be a Nazi" to be better than a nazi. And killing Nazis doesn't make you as bad as nazis it makes you a hero

[cygnia]

It's also doubly skeevy when it's a white (non-mutant) man saying it to a (mutant) woman of color. :-/

[plastefuchs]

I can get the whole "Don't go down that path" bit. But in the end you just phone up Wolverine or Erik and have them take a spin.

[themajesticmoose]

Yeah, the only way I can understand Juggernaut's decision here is if he's worried about her feeling bad about killing someone afterwards.

Even so I still feel like he should pull a Rupert Giles here and kill Zola himself so that she doesn't have to

[mindsweeper]

Exactly.

This is one of the tropes of the genre that we're just expected to accept/ignore. It's annoying when they frame it up like this, especially since it'd be perfectly believable for Juggernaut to "kill" Zola then have the villain show up again later through any number of handwaves.

[themajesticmoose]

It's especially unlikely that Cain Marko, a man who spent his entire life trying to murder his step-brother just because he Slightly Annoyed Him would suddenly be the one trying to claim that Killing Is Always Bad

And yeah if they didn't want to kill Zola off because they wanted to use him as the villain in future stories, just have him escape before Juggernaut can finish him off.

If you are a writer, don't seriously try and make the arguement that killing nazis is bad because given all that's happening in the world right now that's about as ridiculous as trying to make that arguement in 1942

[beyondthefringe]

To be fair, Juggernaut's been on a slow-burning redemption path for about 18 years now--around the time he joined the X-Men and met Sammy Pare. Yeah, he's had his ups and downs because writers -love- Juggernaut as a character and it's understandable, but in general, the trend has been to try and redeem him as an anti-hero.

(This actually goes back even further, given his stint with the All-New Exiles in the Ultraverse...)

So I -can- believe in his attempt to reframe his moral code as anti-killing.

But still, not killing Arnim Zola is such a wasted opportunity to smash a robot Nazi.

[laughing_tree]

It's not so much that killing people is always bad but that it's better when you don't. Like, idgaf that Saddam Hussein was executed but as someone who's anti-death penalty, I'd prefer it if states weren't executing him or anyone else, period.

Killing in self-defense or to stop an active threat is one thing. Killing someone who's already incapacitated and captured is another. As someone who's against the death penalty, one of the things that drew me to the superhero genre was that it's practically the only action genre where I could find stories sharing that sentiment. For people with a different stance, well, they already had 99% of action stories catering to their taste.

[themajesticmoose]

I prefer when heroes don't kill PEOPLE as well

However I don't consider nazis to be people.

[laughing_tree]

To paraphrase Kieron Gillen, the scariest thing about Nazis is that they're people.

[themajesticmoose]

To paraphrase one of my favourite fictional heroes, the great Aldo Raine: Nazi's ain't got no humanity. They're the foot shoulders of a Jewish hating mass murdering maniac and they need to be DESTROYED

[lordultimus]

I suppose you could argue that weak excuse is just a cover and Cain is actually worried about Dee's mental state.

[mastermahan]

I'd like to believe that's the case. It's not like Armin Zola can actually die - he's an uploaded brain and it's been long established he has copies and backups around. Perhaps he figured D-Cel's trauma of trying to kill someone wasn't worth it, especially since he'd just come back anyway.

Or maybe Cain won't let anyone kill since he doesn't trust him own ability to determine whether someone is evil.

Though the ideal explanation is that he's going to call Erik. It's nice to let your brother-in-law know you support their love of killing Nazis.

[deh_tommy]

Also, Zola’s got valuable intel on the for-profit supervillain prison.

Also also, killing humans is a strict nono for all mutants everywhere now, punishable by being eaten directly by Krakoa thatself.

Also also also, he’s trying to be better and likely doesn’t want her to go down the same road he has.

Mind you, that’s kind of muddled by the fact this is Arnim friggin’ Zola, but still.

[themajesticmoose]

The whole "No killing humans" rule only applies to actual flesh and blood humans though

Zola is a tin can made of wires and software chips. He's fair game under Krakoan law

In fact as an artificial intelligence that is against mutantkind it's actually Krakoan law that he must be eradicated. A law which I fully support, especially in this case

[shakalooloo]

Or having a super-scientist alive will be of some small help in escaping from that super-prison. Once you're free and clear, well...

[akodo_aoshi]

hmm, I'll be honest I am not sure I like that Cain is able to flip Cyttorak the bird while still drawing his power in any fashion. Especially since he got these new bands because Cyttorak wanted him to have them.

Getting bad D&D flashbacks where players wanted all the powers of being a cleric/paladin/divine class but did not want any duties to their diety.

I hope there will be some form of payback from the Big C.