The Immortal Hulk #43 - "We're the Good Guys"

[laughing_tree]

In a larger sense – all superheroes are immortal, to an extent. Certainly the major ones. All they have to fear is cancellation, and even then they’ll live on as merchandise – their symbols, etched onto non-biodegradable plastic, have a very good chance to outlive the human race. So once you take death off the table, what’s left for them? It’s a question that’s often asked in horror – what’s worse than dying? I think that’s more interesting than just threatening the Hulk with another fistfight. -- Al Ewing

Comments

[chalicother]

I didn't realize how much of a reaction I would get out of that scene.

As a black man and Hulk fan.

[blueprintstyles]

Same boat. Didn't expect this scene and now I want to but this series even more.

[delanna]

That statement really makes me stop and think. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[floro_kirby]

I love Shaman's reasoning for preferring his codename over his actual name here, it's a little subtle thing but it helps to explain why a grown man would want to be called "Shaman" or "Puck" instead of their actual name whilst facing life or death situations. And it's subtle exposition, too

[bruinsfan]

In his case it's a religious/spiritual vocation of his culture, not just deciding to put on spandex to beat up crooks. Michael would still be a shaman if he'd never met James Hudson and joined Alpha Flight or engaged in any other superheroics.

I also love how grouchy he is here.

[scorntx]

Can't blame him. The only time people call on him is they need someone exorcised or incorcised, they never just visit because they want to hang out.

[zachbeacon]

Yeah, I imagine it's like most people that work under a pseudonym. When the use the pen/stage/whatever name it's probably someone who wants something. When they use your real name they're probably part of the inner circle. When they use your real name and they're NOT part of the inner circle, I'd think that level of familiarity would make you uncomfortable.

[bruinsfan]

To his credit, I do think Sampson was trying to be respectful there by acknowledging Michael's medical credentials, though.

[arilou_skiff]

Eh... "Shaman" isn't a term used by any culture in North America. It's a Tungus/Evenki term, though sometimes used (the term is controversial) as a kind of grouping for certain practices, but in these cases it's an exonym.

[silicondream]

Eh, it still feels a little on the nose to me. Shaman's too Morrisony here, just like Puck is too Ellisy and Samson-in-Sasquatch's body is too Moorey. The Magical Negro trope is all about writing a marginalized character as "They look marginalized, but actually they sound just like the smartest people I know!!" and it's a bit too obvious here who those people are for Ewing, no?

I know Alpha Flight's all about parody, but still. They need a bit more authenticity to be interesting.

[scorntx]

What sort of person in a fictional setting like the Marvel universe is stupid enough to engage in police brutality?
In a place where the person they're trying to beat up will almost certainly have some kind of superpower, or if they don't, someone with superpowers will be nearby and pissed off, what breed of idiot do you have to be to think "yeah, I'mma walk away from this consequence free!"?

These police officers must be the sort of contrary eedjits who'd touch a live wire specifically because they've been told not to.

[donnblake]

Well, you've got to remember that we by and large follow the exploits and adventurers of people who have superpowers and people immediately in their orbit. We don't see police brutality directed at unpowered civilians when there isn't a hero in the vicinity, but I'm not sure that's the same as it not happening.

And given the depopulation of mutants in America over the past couple decades (via assorted genocides, depowerings, and emigration to newly established mutant homelands), probably the incidence of random members of the population having powers is at a relative low.

[shakalooloo]

Given that the Marvel Universe is full of super-powered vigilantes that have a habit of 'tenderising' criminals before handing them over to the authorities, one might think that a few more violent-minded cops could take that as tacit approval.

[deh_tommy]

Heck, there’s a surprising number of police in America who look up to the Punisher, that’d make sense the same would apply to the universe where the Punisher is actually real.

[lordultimus]

I recall a bit where an in-universe conservative newscaster flat-out calls Frank Castle a hero.

[agharta75]

Marvel had to publish a scene with The Punisher telling cop fans of his to stop that or he'd come after them, because there were so many _real_ cop fans.

[zachbeacon]

I know the writer has become problematic but I really enjoyed that Nextwave story about what happened to a cop who was terrorizing a community.

[silverhammerman]

I dunno, given the amount of times we've seen superheroes intimidate people, outright torture them, almost "cross the line", generally fly off the handle over personal issues (how often have we seen Spidey tear into a group of goons with unusual savagery because he's having personal troubles?), and habitually let their peers off the hook for murder, it's not entirely unbelievable that sort of cop would see there being little difference. Heck, the current Daredevil run is all about the consequences of violence and vigilantism, but the first arc does have the other "street level" superheroes essentially close ranks around Daredevil and say "hey, we've all been there" after he accidentally beats a guy to death.

Not to say that I like that sort of storytelling or character beats, but superheroes go too far all the time.

[themajesticmoose]

I mean to be fair when a superhero is more violent than usual it's usually because you know, they're up against someone who's an especially brutal serial killer like Carnage or a rapist like Purple Man or an actual for real Nazi war criminal like the Red Skull.

And not them shooting a black teenager in the back for the "Crime" of existing while black

And you don't see superheroes taking part in white supremacist terrorist violence in support of a nazi as pigs in real life did

When superheroes use violence it's to protect themselves or other lives and against people who actually deserve it. I don't think pigs, in real life or in fiction have anything in common with real heroes

[tcampbell1000]

Everyone else is right about the police brutality scene, but for my money, this story belongs to Joe Fixit. His insistence than he's no more than a selfish survivor keeps him going through a few grift-and-grin scenes that just about persuade you he could stay off the grid for months or years... and then he sees one injustice from which he just can't walk away, and his denial just crumbles.

Many of us discover, at key points in our life, that we are worse than we believed ourselves to be. But every once in a while, we instead find we're better.

[starwolf_oakley]

Peter David wrote Joe Fixit like that on occasion. Especially in his fight with the Super-Skrull in INCREDIBLE HULK #375. The Super-Skrull started it, but his "I've ravaged worlds and torn down civilizations for the glory of the Skrull Empire" talk got Joe angrier than usual.

[themajesticmoose]

Ewing is definitely one of the most gifted writers at Marvel when it comes to character work and making you care about and get invested in the people he writes

[thehood]

Joe has been amazing in this run and i'm glad Ewing brought him back.

[mazway_75]

And now imagining "Hulk Smash" shirts/jackets becoming a rage among various cities and cops going "you know...just walk away, let them go, who knows if HE will hear about it."

[themajesticmoose]

I sincerely hope that Joe crushed both of these nauseating little pigs with their own pig wagon here

This scene is deeply satisfying. It's pure wish fulfillment but superhero comics always have been and I'd rather it be wish fulfillment like this, of a world where people exist who can stop animals and trash like these cops from harming innocent people

[donnblake]

If I've been reading the different personalities right, the Big Guy is probably the least likely to permanently injure anyone (at least if the "Hulk doesn't kill people accidentally during his rampages" rule still holds). The Hulk (is Hulk is Hulk is Hulk) wants the hurting to stop in the short term, and might lash out to that end, but lacks Devil Hulk's ruthless follow-through, or Joe's nasty streak.

[tinygaylaura]

Pigs are nice animals though

These douche canoes are more like bed bugs or roaches. They're gross, they make peoples lives miserable and you would not want to live anywhere that was infested with them

[super_fly]

Hulk says ACAB and BLM

[tinygaylaura]

The Hulk may not always be the brightest Marvel hero but that means he's still smarter than some people in the real world