Scans_Daily

I feel like if I had superpowers and lived in a backwards and inferior time like this one of the first things I would use said superpowers for would be to improve it by making the government of the country I lived in (And the governments of every other nation on earth) grant LGBTQIA people complete freedom to live their lives however they wished

No point saving a world unless it's a world worth saving

Edited Date: 2021-03-18 10:44 pm (UTC)

From:

donnblake

Okay, let's run with that premise. It's an interesting thought experiment (maybe more interesting than this comic!) You've got, let's say, a standard Superman powerset- you can fly, see through walls, punch a tank, laser eyes- standard military equipment is impotent against you, but highly specialized devices and exotic substances may prove a threat. You're part of a team of roughly equivalently powerful individuals, of a cross section of period-typical beliefs for your backwards and inferior time.

You want to force all governments on the Earth to grant LGBTQIA people complete freedom to live their lives.

What's your first move?

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Good old fashioned blackmail/"I'm here to sell you some oops insurance" would be my first instinct. I'd prefer to achieve said goal as peacefully as possible, if possible after all

"So this planet sure does get invaded by aliens and attacked by supervillains on a weekly basis, doesn't it? And it sure does seem like we're the only ones who can stop them destroying you all. Would be a real pity if we just...didn't do that

Not that we'd just stand by and let space squids eat the planet.

Not so long as you're smart and don't give us a reason to do something like that

You got a real nice planet here. Would be a heck of a shame if something happened to it"

Please imagine this in a fifties gangster voice.

Edited Date: 2021-03-18 11:47 pm (UTC)

From:

repto

The problem is that you have to be compassionate and ethical enough to want to make the country a better place for marginalized people, but then you've got to be bastard enough to go through with your threats if need be, knowing that innocent people are going to be caught in the crossfire. It's a hell of a thin line to walk, I think (and yes, much more interesting than Mark Millar's typical "Let me riff off superhero tropes except everyone's a big asshole and everything sucks").

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If I was a superhero I would definitely prioritise protecting my fellow members of the LGBTQ community in general and especially in this kind of situation but yes you would need to think things through carefully and plan things out in such a way that you had contingencies in place to protect the members of the community from harm

And yes "Everyone's a big asshole and everything sucks" does seem to be the general status quo of Millar's work. I find it pretty exhausting having absolutely no one to like or root for in his writing

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cyberghostface

It would probably be like Daenerys trying to end slavery in Game of Thrones or how other countries reacted to Dr. Manhattan. No way Russia or the Middle East would go along with it.

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Hmm. Let's assume the powerset doesn't include Clark's super-charisma, since half the time it seems like he could just ask everyone to be nice to gay people and 99% of humanity would comply.

First move, come out of the closet. No additional force required; just have everyone realize that this incredibly powerful champion of good is whatever-flavor-of-queer, and openly so. You are one of the most respected and least vulnerable queer people on Earth, after all. A lot of regimes will immediately modify their rhetoric, if nothing else, just to stay on your good side.

Second move, relocate. The global influence of DC's USA is far greater thanks to Superman's presence; that asset should be redirected to whatever societies are most LGBTQIA-friendly. If this is 1959, that's probably Northern Europe--maybe the Netherlands in particular, since then you can zoom over the Hague and identify yourself with the UN rather than any one nation. Announce to the public that you're based there because of their great commitment to personal freedoms; you want people to start thinking of "the free world" in terms of civil rights rather than capitalism. Bonus, you're no longer as easy to chase down and neutralize as you would be in the superhuman-rich US.

Third move, now that you're no longer an obvious representative of America, cross the Iron Curtain regularly. (Not like they can stop you or even detect you when you move at near-lightspeed.) Again, the point is to show that gay-friendly societies get the benefit of your attention no matter what their economy looks like. You'll spend a lot of time fighting crime and mitigating natural disasters in northeastern Europe, Southeast Asia, West Africa, and parts of the Middle East and Latin America--all places with socialist/communist-leaning regimes that are tending to liberalize on gay rights at this time. You’ll also spend a lot of time transporting defectors and penetrating information blackouts, so that queer voices are harder to silence. Be your own plucky reporter sidekick!

Now let’s get to the nastier moves. Super-senses let you anticipate world leaders’ policy moves, and untraceable assassinations are a snap for someone with a Kryptonian powerset…at least in parts of the world where your teammates don’t regularly operate. For instance, it wouldn’t be hard to knock off Brezhnev and Suslav in the early sixties, making sure that Podgorny and Kosygin succeeded Khruschev and that the USSR continued to liberalize. Steering events like the Prague Spring to end in a more queer-friendly outcome might require your overt intervention, but in most of those cases there would be enough international support that your teammates wouldn’t actually show up to stop you. Some might even help out, under new identities for plausible deniability.

The main challenge is to avoid threatening American power so much that the whole team is pressured to move against you. That will make it hard to lean on allied right-wing regimes when they persecute LGBTQIA folks, to be sure. Still, if you're smart about media coverage, it'll be pretty obvious to at least some of your teammates (if they are an ideological cross-section) that you're doing a lot of good even from their perspectives.

And now I'm out of ideas.

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Having X-ray vision and superhearing would make it incredibly easy to force bigoted regimes to fall in line and know their place I would think. You could literally learn every personal and political secret that the leaders and high ranking officials of such regimes had and make it clear to them that unless they get down on their knees and kiss your boot like a good little servant you'll make certain that the rest of the world has that knowledge as well. Or at the very least, that the people they absolutely don't want to have that knowledge will have it

"In a world full of locked doors the man with the keys is king. And honey you should see me in a crown"

Edited Date: 2021-03-19 10:29 am (UTC)

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Sure, but that won't make the leaders and officials treat their subjects well. Paranoia begets paranoia, and they'll just try to hurt their subjects in a way you don't notice, and so on all the way down.

If a leader is doing good things, be nice to them, and if a leader is doing bad things, remove them from power. You can reach an understanding with them once they're not a leader anymore.

And I don't even mean you have to remove them by killing them. Imagine if every time our esteemed most recent ex-President did something awful, Superman removed him from the Oval Office at lightspeed and dropped him off in downtown DC. In front of a crowd, with no handlers and no police in sight. And he had to explain himself.

Notice I say every time, not just the last time. The Authority occasionally throws a dictator to the mob, but somehow that's only ever after the dictator's done horrible things for a decade or two. Intervene when the guy's first coming into power, say "we know you mean well and all, but we just want to make sure you stay accountable to your people, so we'll be stopping by regularly." And then actually do it, instead of saying "BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS COME BACK" and then moving back to the more important parts of the Earth and ending the story, ala Hitman.

Edited Date: 2021-03-20 05:33 am (UTC)

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You might enjoy the Netflix series Hollywood, in which a handful of moviemakers (actors, writers, producers) are in just the right place at just the right time to make Hollywood a much more equitable place than it actually was in its "Golden Age."

I recommend it with reservations. Some found it an empowering allegory and an argument for the courage to change the times one's living in. Others were irritated by how unrealistic it got as it went along: overall, the protagonists change the world with what seems like little effort or real sacrifice. They just have to overcome their fear of a backlash that for the most part never arrives. I don't really think making a high-profile movie with a black or gay lead would have done nearly as much for people's rights as the decades of protests and activism it actually took to get us to this point. But Hollywood is a Hollywood-style fantasy about Hollywood's own history, more about feeling good than telling it like it is, and maybe it should be enjoyed on that basis. Your mileage may vary, but I thought it was worth mentioning, at least.

Edited Date: 2021-03-19 11:42 am (UTC)

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I have a Netflix account so I shall have to give this a watch. I might see if my wife wants to watch this with me over the weekend as we've just finished the last series we were watching (Euphoria)

From:

nyadnar17

"No point saving a world unless it's a world worth saving"

This is basically the premise of The Authority right? Using "just war" to forcibly convert every nation on the planet to confirm to your standards of morality.

Hell we don't have to wait for super powers to do that, we could do it right now at the voting both. I'm not even being facetious. That's basically what the British Empire did right? YMMV in the results, but it can be done.

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I absolutely loved the Authority. Great series. The reboot they did a little while back was fantastic too with that The Wild Storm book.

And I don't really have any use for standards of morality. I just think everyone should be free to do whatever they want and fuck whoever they like without some moron trying to persecute them murder them or put them in some gulag because they want to suck some cock or eat some pussy

I'm not saying I'd want to rule the world if I had superpowers. I can't imagine a more boring headache. Imagine all the paperwork for one thing!

I'd just use my powers to tell the people who did run the world to make sure all the people who live in it are being treated with respect and being allowed to do what they want free from fear or hate.

And if the people who ran the world ever forgot that warning maybe I'd give them a little reminder now and then that there's someone with laser eyes and the power to punch a meteor who they don't want to get on the bad side of

From:

zachbeacon

"I respect Mister Hoover's record..."

I can't be bothered to check; was that the evil brother or the stupid one?

(Actually I guess the evil one wasn't all that bright either)

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I mean let's not narrow ourselves down here, if they respect J Edgar Hoover they're probably evil AND stupid

From:

thezmage

I believe it is the evil one who is ostensibly smart but in actuality rather stupid

From:

akodo_rokku

He's high Intelligence, very low Wisdom.

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It's the stupid non-evil one, but in fairness, a lot of non-idiotic people would've said the same thing about Hoover in 1959. Being determined to stay out of politics probably means Sheldon hasn't felt the need to investigate Hoover beyond skimming what makes the headlines.

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I mean even just going by what was making the headlines back then I'd still view J Edgar Hoover about as favourably as a chef would look on a rat that's just perched itself on the award winning dish they've spent three hours working on for a fancy dinner and started nibbling

From:

donnblake

Huh, that scenario has wildly different connotations depending on whether or not I believe you've watched Ratatouille recently, and I don't know you well enough to make that assumption one way or the other.

But you *probably* don't mean you'd engage in a whimsical scenario wherein you hide J Edgar Hoover under your hat and allow him to puppeteer your actions.

Edited Date: 2021-03-19 01:26 pm (UTC)

From:

I do not though that mental image is in fact hillarious

From:

thezmage

I definitely believe it wouldn't be the first time Hoover did that, though

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When no one was looking, J Edgar Hoover stole forty cakes!

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"So my first series was what if these super-great people had these really awful kids, right? Well, this new series is about how the super-great people are actually equally awful! My best work ever."

(He sort of catches himself and says "flawed and human" instead, but c'mon, if they're no better than their kids...)

I'll give Millar points for capturing the gay scene of the 1950s fairly accurately (I didn't know about that gas station until I started researching the accuracy of the Netflix series Hollywood).

From:

strejdaking

You joke but honestly, "What if generation of flawless heroes had shitty kids who ruined everything" would be IMO dull at best, beyond lame and dumb for something that's trying to be a family saga commenting on nature of America. "Both olds and young are shit in their own way", while I would argue is definitely not the point of the series (which I don't even particularly like), would honestly be preferable.

"We shouldn't worry about measuring to our parents, because they had their own faults" is in my mind a fair message-we see in Legacy how Chloe and Hutch actually surpassed them, becoming better parents to their own kid and eventually choosing the challenge the status quo instead of more running. And the big evil thing the rest did was as due to manipulation of an evil old guy (and Utopian's own controlling, conservative attitude), before they were just kinda dicks, living in times after the heroic age of their parents.

I should note, I'm writing these responses with benefit of hindsight and knowing the whole thing, while you to be just reacting to the scans you see here issue at a time. Entirely possible your assesment would be 100% on the money based on these and I'm not even saying being in my position would change your mind, just that I acknowledge I'm perhaps not being fair.

Edited Date: 2021-03-19 04:52 pm (UTC)

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You're quite right that it *would* be dull as hell to make the story into "Greatest Generation rules, kids suck..." but that was Millar's original pitch nevertheless! I do like the projects better the more they diverge from that idea, but they also feel a little less... coherent?... when they do.

From:

strejdaking

But it wasn't, it was just one of the ideas he had for the larger picture. And while it's undermined how underdevelop the younger gen is and becomes more apparent in retrospect, I don't think Millar ever intended for Utopian to be a perfect guy who's only failling was his kids sucking.

Edited Date: 2021-03-20 05:15 am (UTC)

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I mean...

"Imagine The Incredibles, but the kids were a nightmare... what if the world's coolest guy, like Superman, married the world's coolest woman, like Wonder Woman, and they had these f---ing awful children who would be like the Kardashians?"

That's a not unfairly edited-down version of the Mark Millar quotes from the scans for Legacy #2 and #3. It doesn't surprise me that Millar had more to say than just that, because you could cover that concept in a Robot Chicken or SNL sketch, and it'd probably still feel a little stretched out.

My point, I guess, is that it's often frustrating to hear Millar talk about his own work: he loops back, contradicts himself, and often code-switches between thoughtfulness and the art of the simple pitch. That's probably related to why he's been so successful at getting Hollywood's attention, and it probably yields some insight into the process of getting movies made. You need a killer elevator pitch that gets people immediately thinking, "This gon' be big," and "Millennials are killing the Justice League, figuratively and maybe literally" is definitely that.

And once you've reduced your story to eleven words or less, if you get called in to give your spiel, you also need a narrative that argues there's much more to the story than those eleven words. These two things are vaguely contradictory when you put them together, but life's full of little absurdities like that. Only a few writers in most of movie history, though it's become more in the age of social media, have to balance all that with also pitching directly to the reader.

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"Millenials are killing the Justice League!"

"Look you need to stop with these clickbait headlines..."

"No I mean as in I just saw a bunch of them kicking Superman to death and then his son melted his face with his laser eyes it was a whole thing"

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Yeah, Millar's pitches always seem to be aggressively dull--or dully aggressive?--and then if you're lucky, some subtlety sneaks in before the final issue. Come to think of it, that might be the formula for Hollywood success!

Edited Date: 2021-03-20 06:41 am (UTC)

From:

strejdaking

In this case, the pitch was awesome, it's what it ended up that didn't amount to much. https://www.cbr.com/millar-quitelys-jupiters-legacy-a-creator-owned-event/

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