Runaways #35

[cyberghostface]

Comments

[crinos]

In fairness, the last time someone other than Nico touched that staff a big demon came out of it and ate them, so giving Karolina the staff may cause more problems than it causes.

[cainofdreaming]

"Please do this thing that's previously resorted to calamity if you love me." I hate that trope.

[scorntx]

What's a relationship without the occasional attempt at emotional blackmail?

Besides healthy, obviously.

[tinygaylaura]

I can understand why Nico is terrified of giving up the staff when it might be the only way to protect the people she loves one day :(

[zachbeacon]

I feel like they're trying to frame this as a magic addiction like Willow on Buffy but really Nico comes off pretty reasonable here. Maybe if her teammates were a little less death prone ...

[crinos]

Doesn't help that the "Magic as crack" thing was a terrible idea and was pretty much dropped after that season.

And here its less "Nico is addicted to power" and more "Me and my friends lead super dangerous lives and I've had to bring them back from the dead on two separate occasions, so I'm willing to risk my soul to protect the people I love."

[tinygaylaura]

Yes I don't think this is going for that "Magic addiction" bollocks here and is instead presenting both Karolina and Nico as having a point here. It's easy to see why Nico doesn't want to give up the staff but Karolina's worries are justified as well

"Magic addiction" was such a stupid idea but then most of the ideas Buffy the Vampire Slayer came out with were

[starwolf_oakley]

"Magic addiction" was a stupid idea they didn't really explain, either. Giles even said magic isn't addictive in season 7. So, Willow was just going crazy?

[tinygaylaura]

Going crazy from being written by people who couldn't even plot an afterschool special coherently

[jlbarnett]

I hated season sux so much, but thankfully they did establish enough stuff in previous years to create a coherent narrative even if they didn't explain it

First time they had magic on the show on The Witch they had it have mind altering affects making Buffy act drunk

And in season 5 when Willow teleported Glory she suffered headaches, tiredness and nosebleeds. I figure her "withdrawl" in season 6 was a variation of that sort of magical exhaustion or as I've seen it called "burn-out"

But because she was so poorly taught, and she'd been going to a guy who used it for highs, she took it as addiction and withdrawl

[donnblake]

I don't think it was inherently a bad idea- the supernatural as a metaphor for young adult issues was the basic drama engine of the show, often pretty successfully, and "I/someone close to me is struggling with addiction," is a valid way to take that.

Now the actual execution, combined with the fact that they'd already leaned pretty heavily into magic as a metaphor for sexuality with the *same character,* is another matter.

[zachbeacon]

Buffy exists alongside Star Wars as something I consider myself a fan of despite hating huge chunks of it.

The metaphor was always all over the place.

A bunch of old mages using magic to pin all their expectations on a single girl? Fine as long as the right mage is giving orders.
Someone using magic to take matters into their own hands? BURN THE WITCH!*
The same someone using magic to create a worldwide army of random superpowered women around the world? GIRL POWER!

*Though really Dark Willow was treated with kid gloves compared to the time Anya “relapsed”.

[tcampbell1000]

The real problem, looking back on it, was that we were never given understanding of how magic was supposed to work beyond the metaphor of the moment. We were just basically shown one season that magic was like the focused spiritual power of a coming-out party, and then it started following another set of rules.

Like, I could accept a force that's sometimes empowering and sometimes enslaving, depending on how it's used and where your head's at when you use it. Money is like that. Sex, too! Arguably, power itself is like that. And I get not wanting to nail down "the rules of magic" too thoroughly when it's such a convenient make-anything-happen engine for when you get in a tight spot.

But every new paradigm for how magic behaved on the show emerged ex machina. I can normally suspend my disbelief pretty far-- I mean, nobody's ever explained how Superman can fly in a way that makes any sense-- but I do need at least a quick summary of why this magic LGBTQ good and this magic crack-smoky bad. And don't tell me they couldn't have worked such a thing into the narrative: Tara was standing right there.

[zachbeacon]

I mean I can’t help but think Tara only existed as a plot device for Willow. I’m really straining to think of any meaningful relationships she formed with the rest of the cast. Well, maybe Dawn. I think Spike may have occasionally acknowledged she existed.

(For a magic user and teacher with a troubled past, Giles was pretty hands off when it came to teaching troubled young magic users, wasn’t he?)

Still, it seems like the show applied a lot of what Tara’s family said about her in that one Season Five episode to Willow’s arc in Season Six. The difference is Tara’s family was presented as being WRONG about Tara.

[tinygaylaura]

I much prefer the modern day comic book reboot because it contains all the things I found at all interesting about the premise of the show minus all the things I hated

[zachbeacon]

I feel like they just skipped over the early character development and dropped mid to late series versions of the characters into the first season.

Except for Cordy. She's just unrecognizable.

[tinygaylaura]

I mean

I had absolutely no interest in the characters in the early seasons

And I think the original version of Cordelia was just Joss Whedon writing a grotesque caricature of all the girls who wouldn't fuck him in high school and then pairing her off with his self insert Gary Stu

So I'm fine with both those changes

[zachbeacon]

I consider some of the early seasons (specifically two and three) to be among the greatest television ever so I can't agree with you there.

On Cordelia specifically, at the time I saw her more as the show fleshing out the stereotypical "mean girl" we see in media. Still, given when I now know about Whedon's treatment of Carpenter and Xander being an author avatar, I should probably reevaluate some opinions.

[deh_tommy]

I think that’s less magic addiction and more “I know this is self-destructive and wrong but me and my family have needed this staff on too many occasions and I’m too scared to risk something bad happening that could be avoided or fixed with the Staff”.

[zachbeacon]

Someone who puts themselves at risk to protect loved ones and strangers alike.

I feel like there's a word for that.

Seriously though, I don't see the difference between her continuing to use the staff despite potential dangers and Peter Parker continuing to be Spider-Man.

(After OMD I'm a lot more worried about Peter's soul than Nico's anyway)

[shadowpsykie]

is it weird that i feel cutting your self (and honestly it wasn;t always cutting, just bleeding...) is less bad than.... like... soul munching?

[zachbeacon]

People who have to constantly check their blood sugar are wondering why she's such a drama queen about this.

[mesmiranda]

There's a difference between carefully pricking your finger with a sterilized needle, with a moment of 'ouch', and harming yourself with a sharp object to cause a great deal more pain, and using the term "drama queen" in reference to cutting oneself makes me pretty uncomfortable, not gonna lie.

[zachbeacon]

Thanks for twisting my words, Always a sign of a good faith argument.

She needs to draw blood to use her completely optional powers. There's no specified method of bloodletting beyond that. This is a series that once implied the staff has been released by a period.

Bleeding is a perfectly normal thing people do and its generally fine unless too much is lost or the wound is exposed to something particularly nasty. Losing part of your soul seems a lot more extreme.

[mesmiranda]

Thanks for twisting my words, Always a sign of a good faith argument.

I said it made me uncomfortable, I'm not trying to jump down your throat, Jesus Christ.