The Other History of the DC Universe #5

[history79]

Comments

[tinygaylaura]

I love Thunder's "Batman can go fuck himself" view here so much

[deh_tommy]

Oh goody, I can’t wait to see what other snarky io9 commenter hot takes this series has in store.

...no, that’s mean. I’m sorry. I’m always saying there’s always room for different interpretations and books like these are a good medium to explore them, even if I myself don’t particularly care too much for them.

[beyondthefringe]

This isn't the most inaccurate description of that era of the Outsiders... especially once Batman -did- show up to start making people compete to be on the team.

[jlbarnett]

feels like a lousy interpretation of Dick

[cricharddavies]

Oh goody, I can’t wait to see what other snarky io9 commenter hot takes this series has in store.

... this is the last issue.

[deh_tommy]

Then I suppose I’m eager for what other snarky io9 commenter hot takes this issue has.

[lordultimus]

Erm, her name was Indigo, not Violet.

[dan_ingram]

Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Death Metal, take your pick!

[zachbeacon]

I'm just happy any part of that Outsiders run is in continuity now.

With the Nu52 Dick went from being arguably the best leader in the DCU to someone who'd never even been on a superhero team.

[zachbeacon]

Cass hit her so hard she forgot her colors.

[dan_ingram]

Why were they fighting anyways?

[zachbeacon]

Creative team change IIRC.

"Lets have the new members beat up the old members to show how badass they are"

[bruinsfan]

Could it be an intentional misnaming due to dislike?

[sabertoothlotus]

Thank you! I was thinking this, too.
Could they not be bothered to fact check this?

[tinygaylaura]

"they were looking for validation from anywhere they could find it. Either at the head of a group of heroes or from between some woman's legs"

I've not done the first one yet but I strongly recommend the second

"Mostly it felt like it was just grinding and in-fighting"

I mean the in-fighting probably sucked but "Mostly just grinding" would be my goals as a superhero so big fan of that

"Rex and Violet did hook up...which is a sight I can never unsee"

Now I like Thunder here but I just cannot go along with the idea that sex wih a cute horny blue robot with pink hair is anything other than the best thing ever

"Then I met Batman and forgave Dick everything"

I laughed out loud at that.

I love the idea that as soon as anyone meets the unresolved trauma that walks like a man known as Batman everyone who has spent time with his sidekicks just goes "Oh shit that's why they're like this, now I feel bad about being so short with them"

"Batman is incapable of trust. Batman is incapable of understanding love"

This is a man who kept detailed plans for how to murder every single one of the only people who like him so yeah seems prety accurate

[zachbeacon]

"I love the idea that as soon as anyone meets the unresolved trauma that walks like a man known as Batman everyone who has spent time with his sidekicks just goes "Oh shit that's why they're like this, now I feel bad about being so short with them""

Rings pretty true for me. How many times has meeting someone's parents lead to an "oh, NOW I understand them" revelation?

[deh_tommy]

I am so, so goshdarned sick of that cold take about Batman and I’m really peeved with stuff like the King run for letting that seep into canon even further. He’s got issues, but he’s perfectly capable and willing of trust and love and has been since his inception.

[lego_joker]

I used to give writers a lot of heat for basing their Superman takes around "whatever Batman isn't", but now I'm wondering if the pendulum's swung (back?) over to Batman writers working from a base of "whatever Superman isn't".

And on multiple levels, I can sympathize - one weakness of the superhero genre nobody wants to admit out loud is that there are only so many personality traits fit for an ongoing hero, so there ends up being a lot of overlap, and more often than not you wind up with heroes mainly distinguished by their powers or aesthetics. But Batman's usually the most popular hero with writers as well as readers, to they want him, at least, to have something unique no matter what the cost.

[thanekos]

That's not a weakness of " genre ", a label - it's one of many writers and readers' story(telling/reading) capabilities, one that can be found in many " genres " and their fandoms.

[tinygaylaura]

I actually do not disagree with you about this

Batman when he's written well is a better person than this. But the period of history this story is covering was a time when Batman was written as an obnoxious control freak asshole so Thunder is not wrong about her appraisal of Batman here. That's how writers wrote him back then in these stories.

I'm actually more upset with how this issue claims Jefferson Pierce used to be homophobic and was bullying and cruel to one of his students. I don't know where Ridley pulled that take on the character from and I can't imagine Black Lightning being a bigot or being emotionally and psychologically abusive to a student of all people

From what I've seen

[chortles81]

It's that student telling his side of a story previously told by Jefferson Pierce in the first book.

[sabertoothlotus]

Now I like Thunder here but I just cannot go along with the idea that sex wih a cute horny blue robot with pink hair is anything other than the best thing ever

As I recall, the sex they were having was... unconventional. "Rex" being able to change his form and Indigo being a robot meant they could explore some things they couldn't with human partners.
I'm sure the sex was great, but that doesn't mean I wanna walk in on it unprepared.

[tinygaylaura]

Personally that would just make me even more into it

[gnarll]

Consentacle hentai with chemical smells and no human flesh involved.

[supercapo16]

Oh, Batman as a cold, heartless, paranoid, jerk. What a brave and unique take on the character that nobody has ever attempted before.

At the point when the Lego Batman Movie is able to build an entire plot parodying this take on Batman, it's ceased to be fresh and interesting. I'm just so bored with this idea.

Also it's wildly out of character for Batman to not give a damn about the cost of lives a mission would take. Batman's entire m.o. is trying to save lives to the point where he has a freaking no kill rule stronger than pretty much any other Superhero, including Superman.

Sorry for the rant, I'm sure the rest of this is fantastic, just not a fan of seeing this take on Batman regurgitated for the umpteenth time.

[tinygaylaura]

Batman was a cold, heartless paranoid jerk in the stories this series covers.

[bmaryott]

Okay, folks - these stories are SO NOT about Batman. At MOST they have some stories about how other people around them remember dealing with him AND all the heroes around them.

Is Batman cold? Sometimes. And that's what some people are going to know him for. They're not going to think "Gosh, he has popcorn with all the Robins (except Stephanie) they're going to remember the times he played chess with their lives (and probably never realizing that he did it to keep them from getting in GREATER trouble.)

[leahandillyana]

Is Jefferson's homophobia adressed in the story?

[cricharddavies]

Yes.

[tinygaylaura]

I really hate the decision by this series to portray Jefferson as being homophobic

The only time I've seen him portrayed that way was in one story by Dani Didio

And I firmly believe that nothing by Dan Didio should be considered canon

[cricharddavies]

And I firmly believe that John Stewart's destruction of Xanshi should be decanonized as something that he would never be so careless as to do, but it's part of the history of what happened in the comics that the author uses to tell his story. Jefferson's attitudes towards masculinity tie in with the account of his failures as a teacher and a father in the first volume of this series.

What I find a bit bewildering is the attempt to shift Jefferson's tenure as Secretary of Education from the imaginary presidency of Lex Luthor to the real world presidency of Dubya.

[bmaryott]

It's more REFERENCED than dealt with. He's confronted with it, but neither admits or denies it.

[palgrave_goldenrod]

Have to admit, I like the idea but I'm not a huge fan of the "here's my lengthy spleen-venting blog post" narrative style of this series.

[bmaryott]

I found it well-written and thoughtful. Less blog post and more memoire.

[palgrave_goldenrod]

Fair enough! Agree to differ.