(No Scans) "What If ...?" Discussion Part Eight

[cricharddavies]

Penultimate episode dropped.


Okay, this is mostly how we got to the end of the last episode. And I really don't see Thanos going down quite so easily as this shows.

Nice callback in that scene. You know which one.

And that's why his head's shaped like that. Brilliant.

Comments

[deh_tommy]

Did they get James Spader back? How does Ultron go from forcing humanity to adapt to conquering the multiverse considering he doesn’t share the same burning hatred for organic life (or at least non-Ultron life) his comic counterpart had? How do the Infinity Stones work for him if they’re meant to be inert in other realities? I’m one of those weirdos who really liked Avengers: Age of Ultron so I’m excited to see the titular character make is glorious return.

[cricharddavies]

First question: Nope.

Second and subsequent questions: Some of these are answered in the ep.

[tinygaylaura]

I think the MCU version of Ultron still had elements of his comics selfs hatred for humans. It wasn't as all encompassing as in the comics but everything he does is pretty much motivated by the fact he's looked at all of human history and decided we royally piss him off

I had the same question

[martiniphilosph]

How do the Infinity Stones work for him if they’re meant to be inert in other realities?

It would appear that they're playing very fast and very loose with the comic book continuity on this front. I'll go so far as to say that they're playing fast and loose with the television continuity as well given how we've already seen how inert the stones were at the TVA.

Then again, this is probably one of those questions we should leave alone as long as the episodes are fun and entertaining.

[zachbeacon]

I mean it'd be one thing if they just said "The MCU Stones work different than the 616 Gems" but the Loki series went out of its way to say they only work in their universe of origin.

Granted there's plenty of other MCU lore they've made up as the went along. Remember Odin's fake Infinity Gauntlet? Heck, they've used Adam Warlock twice as an Easter egg in ways that contradict each other and I think I saw Gunn say he was considering "Introducing" him for a third time.

(Not sure WHY you'd bring him into the MCU at this point when his relationship to Thanos is the most interesting thing about him but I feel the same way about the Eternals)

[cricharddavies]

I mean it'd be one thing if they just said "The MCU Stones work different than the 616 Gems" but the Loki series went out of its way to say they only work in their universe of origin.

It is possible that 'rule' is one of the other things that has changed in the aftermath of Loki's finale.

[deh_tommy]

Or maybe the multiversal reboot in Secret Wars also changed how the stones/gems operate in other reality? Or maybe that’s the gems that don’t work and the stones are much more raw and dangerous due to being uncut?

[owlbrigade1]

I thought that Loki only said they wouldn't work in whatever null-time place the TVA headquarters was at. That doesn't rule out them working in different universes, just that they only don't work in TVA HQ. BICBW.

[dan_ingram]

"but the Loki series went out of its way to say they only work in their universe of origin."

Not exactly. The Infinity Gems don't work inside of the TVA, just like Loki's magic. And one presumes that they have tech capable of dealing with the gems inside of whatever reality they happen to be in.

[mazway_75]

Okay, now see where it's going, assembling the multiverse guys we've been watching against greater threat, this makes a lot of the show flow much better.

[iamrman]

Always happy to see Thanos getting his shit wrecked.

[zachbeacon]

That was a really good laugh in an otherwise grim episode.

"Nope"

*zap*

[tcampbell1000]

Man, I complained about how much they nerfed Thanos in episode 2. I had no idea. This and the zombies, both of them when he already had some infinity stones... At this rate, the next time he shows up, he'll die of fright when Ant-Man calls him a mean name.

Not really into Marvel once more pulling the "u thot was little stories, but was chapters in 1 big story! bamboozled again" trick. Won't this just enable all the people who whine that every story has to "matter" to the lumbering MCU metanarrative? But if they had to do it, there are worse ways to go than discount CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.

[zachbeacon]

It'd be kinda funny if Ravager Thanos found out about the fate of the other What If Thanoses (Thani?) and saw it as a cautionary tale.

"Boy, it sure is a good thing I didn't try to go through with my (totally not genocidal because its random) plan."

[mastermahan]

STRANGE: I went forward in time... to view alternate futures. To see all the possible outcomes of the coming conflict.

QUILL: How many did you see?

STRANGE: Fourteen million six hundred and five.

STARK: How many did we win?

STRANGE: ...Fourteen million and eight. This guy's kind of a loser.

[mindsweeper]

I wonder if Jim Starlin will be inspired to change his mind and come back just to have Thanos destroy Ultron.

[zachbeacon]

I can’t help but compare the fights in this one with the fight in the last one. I’m sure its partly on my mind just because of Carol but I’m also struck by the way they played with setting. In the last episode Space Karen and Frat God were fighting around the world. In this episode the Killing Machine was hitting the Cosmic Voyeur so hard he got knocked into the next universe over.

So apparently episode ten got moved to the next season. I hope nine wraps up this arc because I really don’t want a repeat of Titans.

[shakalooloo]

I really like how they animate explosions in this series, and this episode had a lot of them showing off.

What exactly was the divergence point, here? As these episodes have been progressing, they've been less and less clear each time. In the first epsode, Uatu lays out exactly what little change led to Captain Carter. Here, the change is that Ultron got his vibranium body, but we don't know HOW that happened. Given that Black Widow stole it from him in Age of Ultron, one might guess that her death would be necessary to prevent it, but clearly not. Did the twins not turn against him? If so, where are they?

Turns out Vision could just have bisected Thanos with a blast of his mind stone any time he felt like it. Huh. Really woulda helped when the big purple dude had his hand wrapped around the synthezoid's skull that one time...

How did Thanos assemble the stones three years early? The Ancient One would still have the time stone, space would be locked up tight in Asgard...

Best not to think about these things. Is Black Widow skilled enough at robotics to make Hawkeye a robot arm? Sure, why not!

[tinygaylaura]

"Just try not to think about that and focus on having a good time"

*Looks at audience*

"And that goes for all of you, too"

"YES"

[deh_tommy]

I kind of thought that took three years for Ultron to find “peace”? Black Widow and Hawkeye are still alive, chances are there were other pockets of life around, too. What I’m curious about is why he didn’t try to fling the city at the Earth and just opted to go straight for the nukes this time around. Chances are Thanos sacked Asgard to get their stone, maybe Loki gave that to him. I don’t know how he got the Time Stone, though.

[scorntx]

The nukes were Ultron's plan A first time around. Dropping Sokovia was plan... C?

[shakalooloo]

See, I thought Thanos might have stepped up his timetable and attacked to claim the stones, but when we see Ultron later destroying all the planets Asgard, Xandar etc. are all perfectly fine, not in the state a visit from the mad titan would've left them in.

[filthysize]

Yeah, they did set up a butterfly effect motif that doesn't get followed through, but the What If? comics don't really do that, either, and tend to just jump right into it. I think that was there in the first ep just as an entry point to the multiverse concept.

[cricharddavies]

Did the twins not turn against him? If so, where are they?

They weren't in the scene where Ultron starts uploading himself to the Vision's body ... maybe they got captured during the fight on Klaue's ship?

[scorntx]

Given the way the MCU has treated Pietro, it's entirely plausible that somewhere during the fight he tripped over a rake and broke his neck.

[scorntx]

...
I... actually thought this one was kind of boring.
Sorry. But it's just "Ultron is an unstoppable murder-machine who murders everyone, part 1 of 2."


Hawkeye threatening Zola with some water is the most like Hawkeye Hawkeye has been in the entire MCU so far.
And Carol Danvers getting blown up is the same.

[zachbeacon]

I thought Clint encouraging the twins that other time they fought Ultron was a pretty Hawkeye thing to do. I mean, he's supposed to be one of the better team leaders (even if he's usually pretty awful when he's a subordinate).

I think the inherent problem with this kind of robot apocalypse story is that, at a certain point, it becomes indistinguishable from a zombie apocalypse story. We've already had an episode where a handful of surviving heroes has to survive against a tireless neverending mob of enemies as they search for a way to stop the enemy.