Amazing Spider-Man #75

[cyberghostface]

 

Comments

[coldfury]

Ugh, I don't like this, for two reasons I can think of off the top of my head:

1.) U-Foes. Writers have the habit of having these guys jobbing jobbers one minute, and the next minute they're using their powers so lethally and realistically that no one would stand a chance. I'm reminded of the time they were sicc'd on Volstagg and killed a stadium full of people. It's just too incongruous. Either they're major threats that should have the Avengers et al scrambling every time they break out of prison, or they're jobbers. Suddenly having them almost killing Spider-Man just by existing kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief.

2.) Premise Rush. OK, so the premise of this new run is that Ben is back in the suit. And instead of taking our time to establish that, and letting that breathe, we have him and Peter run into a situation that makes him clearly superior and nearly kills Peter *instantly*. Instead of building up his presence for a few issues, ratcheting up the tension between him & Peter while highlighting their old familial ties, we just instantly KO Peter. Plus we know from the solicits that Beyond corporation isn't thrilled about multiple Spider-men and goes after Miles in some capacity... pretty convenient that Peter is instantly out of the way so that can move forward.

Putting those two together makes this feel super gimmicky. Even more that the Peter Parker: CEO days.

[thehood]

Especially since we saw them as a serious threat in Immortal Hulk not long ago.

[lordultimus]

I dunno, I prefer seeing them being competent at least sometimes, as opposed to the Wrecking Crew, who haven't been seen as a legitimate threat in decades.

[bravest_spinja]

U-Foes. Writers have the habit of having these guys jobbing jobbers one minute, and the next minute they're using their powers so lethally and realistically that no one would stand a chance.

Think of them as the Manning brothers of supervillainy. Sometimes they're champs, sometimes they blow it.

[thanekos]

And so begins a technically competent run with a decent set of creators, heading towards a climax where Peter returns in a way evoking the emotional beats of Amazing Spider-Man #33, because no one expects anything else out of modern mainline Spider-Man.

[scorntx]

Hey, if you don't expect anything, then it might surprise you. Maybe.

[nyadnar17]

So am I reading this right?

Peter has cancer now? Can he even get radiation based cancer?

[scorntx]

Sixty years of legacy heroes, and we've still learned nothing.

I got nothing against Ben. I think he's an interesting character and was supremely hard done-by by the Clone Saga, and then Slott.
But as far as ways to sell someone on a run go, it's just a bit depressing that writers still feel the need to go for "kill the precursor right away so New Character can be the One True Character X."
(I'm not even mad, just... mildly baffled, at best.)

Also, question: Is there some greater reason Peter is irritated at Ben offering to share Spidey with him?
Because for someone who's endlessly moaned about how being Spider-Man ruins his life, and not his own horrifically bad decision making skillz, you'd think he'd be more open to someone sharing the burden.

[zachbeacon]

Heck, he doesn't have a problem sharing it with Miles and it wasn't that long ago he was PAYING Hobie to use the name.

This is like the weirdly out of character time Peter got mad at Jessica Drew because there were too many Spider-Women.

[cyberghostface]

I mean only a few years ago (in our time, probably just a few months in-universe) Ben tried to wipe out the entire human race and replace them with clones. Then PAD’s run had him turn evil at the end and stab Kaine.

[scorntx]

... I hate everything about that last sentence.

Did PAD give him any particular reason for turning evil again, or was it just 'cuz?

[cyberghostface]

The idea was that the repeated resurrections were fracturing his soul and that if he were to die and come back again it would turn him evil. So he dies again and is resurrected (despite Ben’s protests) and he turns evil in the process and that’s how the series ends. It’s really weird as the series up until that point was more or less putting Ben on the path to redemption after Clone Conspiracy and then the ending just goes “lol fuck you”.

Then in Spider-Geddon he’s killed again, brought back and “restored to factory settings” so he’s no longer evil and this issue has him mentioning therapy and that seems to be it. Kaine also appeared in Spider-Geddon as well so I guess he’s fine.

[scorntx]

Therapy.
For evil.
... okay.

(Though that ending sounds a little like a sudden ax order came down.)

But as long as Kaine's fine, that's... good?

[zachbeacon]

Legacy number 876

So Peter either returns in one year for the 60th anniversary or in two years (assuming a monthly schedule and I don't think this series has been monthly for a while) for issue 900.

Either way both these creative teams and status quo seem like even more temporary than usual.

[cyberghostface]

It’s going to be three issues a month because everyone loved when BND did it.

[zachbeacon]

Explains the three writers.

I assume they're aiming for 900 to have an August release date and they're giving themselves a small buffer.

It's a shame August 1, 2022 is a Monday and not a Wednesday. Really missing out on that Spider-Man Day synergy.

[blues32]

Really? REALLY?! He just gets out of a fight with countless opponents at once led by a demonic Harry Osborn and THIS is what does him in? What next, is he going to get all the radiation in his body removed, taking away his powers? Just so we can REALLY repeat what happened in the 90s in full?

[cyberghostface]

To be fair people liked Ben Reilly it was just the idea that he was the “real”
Spidey and Peter was a clone that pissed people off. Killing off Ben was seen as throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[janegray]

This. The idea of Peter having a clone-brother was great, and received extremely well. Everybody loved Ben as Peter's bro.

It was only when Marvel started going "oh and also Peter is not Peter, you've spent the past 15-something years investing in an impostor, Ben is gonna wipe out everything you know and love" that people started raging.

[deh_tommy]

Uh oh, Zeb Wells is back on Spider-Man? Don’t get me wrong, I like most of his stuff, but there’s something troubling about doing a similar creative approach to how Brand New Day was handled right down to the same writers.

[cyberghostface]

Yeah Slott and Spencer only just managed to undo Lizard eating his son.

[silverhammerman]

I've been kind of surprised to see how down people in this community seem to be on Brand New Day. I mean, I think that everything leading up to it was terrible, and its legacy as far as Peter Parker's characterization and direction is pretty bad, but what I've read of the actual BND comic seemed largely good to me, and I usually see it mentioned fondly in other places.

What about the era didn't work for you?

[cyberghostface]

A lot of it was in part due to the status quo, there was a bit of 'accentuate the negative' which I was in hindsight guilty of as well due to the bad taste left with OMD. Although Marvel didn't help things by constantly poking at the fans with little jabs about the marriage. There was a lot of bad blood between the fans and people running the show at that point.

That being said, more than half of BND was mediocre at best. The "rotating writers" ended up being a mess as it just kept on shifting back and forth without there being much of a cohesive storyline. Marvel even admitted this wasn't the best approach later on which is why I find them repeating it here to be worrying. And a lot of the stuff was just meandering plots like trying to get us to care about who Menace was like it was the next big Hobgoblin mystery.

Peter was just an unpleasant manchild throughout at best, morally repugnant at worst. One example was when Chameleon (at minimum) molested Peter's antagonistic roommate while pretending to be Peter. Then when Peter returns he finds out that she's into him now and his reaction is annoyance that he has to deal with her. There was a huge shitfest over this with Marvel trying to save face that Peter didn't do the right thing and tell her immediately that she was taken advantage of. I remember the editor even said in the letters column "I don't feel comfortable with you calling it rape as no force was used" which just shows you the mindset back then.

Then we had the "Gauntlet" storyline which not only had Lizard eat his son and make New Yorkers rape/kill each other but resurrected Kraven for no reason at all. It was clear no one put any thought into this at all because Slott completely ignored the character when he took over completely and then Spencer killed him off again as soon as he took over! What was the point?

One writer I was too hard on was Dan Slott. In retrospect he did the best he could do with the status quo. Heck, he created Mr. Negative who is probably one of the few recent villains to have any semblance of staying power (having appeared in cartoons, games and toys). When he took over he did his part in undoing/rectifying all the bullshit that had permeated the the earlier issues. Also a lot of people here accused of him hating Mary Jane and holding back the Spider-Marriage which was complete bullshit as his hands was tied. Nick Spencer's run has proven that OMD is set in stone -- for all of the carrot dangling he did with Mephisto it's still in place.

[zachbeacon]

While a lot of people are just mad about Peter and MJ not being together it is also worth noting that MJ is a popular character who got written out of the series completely for a while. Also most of the new love interests were all pretty terrible and, even if they weren't, we knew nothing would happen because Marvel editorial doesn't want Peter tied down.

Speaking of being written out of the series, most of the recognizable villains were gone because they wanted to push new baddies. Mister Negative was the only one that really stuck.

They brought Harry back from the dead and then didn't do anything with him.

The constantly changing creative teams resulted in constantly changing quality. That actually worries me about the current status quo too.

Having said that, there were some great things that came out of BND. JJJ as mayor was inspired and should have lasted longer.

[blues32]

Well, they did SOMETHING with Harry. But just the one thing, really. They had Harry grow past his need for his father's approval and even up to his death (the latest one anyway), he didn't go back to being a daddy's boy. I mean, yeah, he died trying to save Norman, but this was sinless Norman. Which I guess means his powers are gone? Either way, at least he died saving a possibly redeemable version of Norman.

[zachbeacon]

They brought him back from the dead, used him in the American Son arc, and then wrote him out of the series until he became a background character in the Parker Industries stuff,

I don't love the way Spencer used Harry but at least Spencer used Harry.

[blues32]

They also used him to take down Menace...he had a new kid, had him beat the crap out of Vin Gonzales for threatening his kid, had that touching bit where he refused to let go of Normie even as the Carnage symboite bonded to him was cutting into his arm...

They could have done better, certainly, but he wasn't completely wasted. Just...not used in a memorable fashion, I guess.

[thumbs13]

Overdrive being the only other BND villain to last the long term is weird in hindsight.

[zachbeacon]

Really everything I like about Overdrive came from Superior Foes. What I saw in BND was pretty forgettable and I figure the appeal for Spencer was that he was a blank slate.

Screwball kind of caught on in a silly White Rabbit or Leap Frog way too but I'm not sure that's something to brag about.

For a while they seemed dead set on making Menace happen but we have too many Goblins already and Lily was never that interesting.

I will defend this aspect of BND by saying you don't HAVE to have the classic villains to have a memorable run.

I think the Vulture was the only existing Spider-Foe Stern used and Kingsley is arguably the best Goblin.

I'm not the biggest JMS fan but his run is hugely popular despite all the knockoff versions of Morbius, Joe Fixit (by way of Solomon Grundy), Cloak, Shocker, Molten Man, and others. It was nice to watch real Doc Ock fight fake Doc Ock, though.

Still, I don't think Paper Doll and Freak were exactly setting the world on fire.

[blues32]

Kingsley is certainly the sanest Goblin. He seeks wealth, power, and influence...and occasionally revenge. He doesn't try to, say, build a massive underground army or attempt an ancient ritual. It's funny that he's saner than the one Goblin who never had any powers at all...and was a psychologist.

[zachbeacon]

I mostly just find it funny that the bar is so low on comic psychologists that I'm not sure Bart was actually that bad. Still a terrible goblin though.

I like Kingsley because he's a competent villain and I liked Harry because "the hero's best friend" makes for a more personal villain than "the hero's best friend's creepy dad".

Honestly I can't say I was ever that impressed with the other Goblins.

(Well, Phil was an interesting idea but then he snapped and went full villain)

Heck, Norman's entire career as the Green Goblin mostly revolves around taking credit for the work of others...which is pretty appropriate for a businessman turned super villain.

[tinygaylaura]

Was it JMS who invented the new Doc Ock?

Paper Doll had a great creepy design but her origin and motivation was just...ehhhhhhh

I like Screwball. She's fun

Menace and the Phil Urich Goblin were so damn stupid it was painful

Especially since Phil Urich's motivation was wanting to fuck Norah Winters

I mean she's got a 5 body at best and even if she was a 10, no amount of pretty on the outside would make up for how ugly she is on the inside

And look

I just can't respect anyone who wants to fuck Norah Winters

[tinygaylaura]

Brand New Day was some of the worst garbage the Spider-Man titles have ever published so your fears are well founded

[zachbeacon]

Someone has clearly never read Get Kraven.

[tinygaylaura]

I have not

I must be honest having read reviews of it I do not feel like I am missing out by not having read it

[zachbeacon]

That assumption is correct.

I don't like most of BND but Marvel has done worse with Spider-Man.

Heck, as much as I hate OMD, I'm not even sure it's the worst attempt to get rid of MJ and bring back May because, well, the Byrne/Mackie era existed.

Though you really can't top that Reign mini when it comes to terrible ways of getting rid of MJ

[shakalooloo]

So the Beyond Corporation® hired the U-Foes to take Parker out, right?

[iamrman]

Wow. Even his clone has a better life than Peter. Sucks to be him, I guess.

Looks like the U-Foes are feeling better after the Hulk effed them up in his own book.

I have to say I am intruiged where this is going. Things are sure to get weird if the Beyond Corporation is involved.

[silverhammerman]

Lol everything about this really adds to the impression that this is a caretaker run to kill time. Even the way Peter is seemingly incapacitated here with some kind of radiation related health problems seems like clearing the deck as quickly as possible while also keeping Peter in reserve for his glorious return in the next anniversary issue, when Marvel will also have conveniently worked the kinks out of the weekly Spider-Man model.

I still can't stand Ben's new costume (it retains exactly none of the identifiable elements which made his original Spider-Man getup unique and memorable!) but the setup could have legs. Pitching Ben as the corporate backed professional hero is a big contrast with his original role as the more youthful and scrappy Spider-Man (which would be redundant considering how Marvel has made Peter less mature over the years) and the Beyond Corporation as his obviously evil bosses could be good.

[scorntx]

Also, if anyone needs a youthful Spider-Man, there's always Miles.
(Don't think Miles could be defined as 'scrappy', but he's definitely youthful.)

-Pitching Ben as the corporate backed professional hero [...] could be good-

That would be an interesting inversion of the usual legacy concept, where it's the outgoing hero who's the inexperienced screw-up, and the new one is the competent one.

[dcbanacek]

I was going to go on an expletive filled rant about all of this foolishness but I think I'll sum this up with a "yawn".

Seen this before where Ben steps up and Pete steps down. Variations on a theme.

[starwolf_oakley]

They've been vague over the years how much radiation hurts Peter. He even deliberately irradiated himself to fight Morlun in the first JMS Morlun story. Because comics.

[stubbleupdate]

Is anybody else singing the song now that the Beyond corporation have turned up?

[shakalooloo]

A Midget Hitler?!?

[sabertoothlotus]

If this leads to a resurgence for Nextwave, I can forgive it for being a tired retread of previous work ("I know! Let's combine aspects of the Clone Saga with Superior Spider-Man! Everybody loved both of those storylines,right?!")

[blues32]

Actually, Superior Spider-Man did pretty well. The evolution of Otto's character was interesting to see, especially the end of the first run where he admits that Peter IS the Superior Spider-Man.

[zachbeacon]

Do you need a toothbrush?

(frozen)

[tinygaylaura]

The answer....is CANCER?!?!?!!