A time to kill, and a time to heal

[superboyprime]

Trial of Magneto #3...

Comments

[panthyr]

Not super happy that Cap is being written as talking over Wanda even more than Iron Man. Kind of expect it from Tony.

[arilou_skiff]

So, Wanda taken from an earlier point in history then?

[shadowpsykie]

maybe... maybe not.... we don;t know still exactly what happened. we and they have suspicions... but it could be any number or combination of things.

[sabertoothlotus]

So, clearly they've ressurectes Wanda from that outdated backup, right? I'm glad that nobody's really buying into this BS, as something is obviously wrong, here.

If this backup predates Avengers Disassembled, there's a rral risk in Wanda losing it again and causing yet another massive disaster. Seems like a terrible idea in general.

[gnarll]

Good point. Notice how the Kaiju show up from nowhere when she gets upset?

[shadowpsykie]

i don't know... we THINK it could be Wanda from a back up... but the "Magic" pages seem to be showing there are other factors at play. Like Wanda's magic AND Krakoa, are working in unison.

[alliterator]

Rachel and Jean think that Wanda was restored from her old backup, which is why she doesn't have a lot of her memories -- but I think that's a red herring. We see at the end of the issue (in the liminal afterlife-space) that Regular Wanda has noticed some of her memories gone and then she finds the person who "killed" her was Old Lady Wanda.

So I think Wanda did something to split herself into three -- mother, maiden, crone, as it were. This is Wanda the Maiden, while the afterlife-space has Wanda the Mother and Wanda the Crone. I think we're going to have to see her accept all parts of herself to reunite.

[tinygaylaura]

That seems plausible

[gnarll]

That would explain a lot about physical Wandas behavior. Pity for Magneto, if it turns out that actual Wanda doesn't agree with the reconciliation they just had.

[shadowpsykie]

i wish some one posted that....

[gnarll]

So. Many. Questions.

Wanda calls Magneto "daddy". I can't remember her ever being that informal, even after she accepted his paternity she was never easy enough to call him anything else but "father" at best.

Wanda knows Magneto is her father, but not that she and the Vision was married. But she found out her paternity after the marria.ge. If anything she should have thought the Whizzer was her father. How does that timeline work?

Speed and Demiurge. Not sure how Deniurge made it there, or why everyone is so calm that the Prince Consort of the united Skrull/Kree empire is in the room. That is enough political weight to generate its own gravity field. Warp reality on its own.

But why do the two keep calling Wanda mother? They both have perfectly good mothers already, and Billy has brothers. They've met Wanda maybe six-seven times. After growing up with a family (of a sort, for Tommy) she is a mentally unstable woman who has told them they are the back-in-time reincarnations of her dead-but-didn't-really-exist infants. (And her ex-husband says no, thats bull) The fact that you are taking that seriously should make at least Billys alarm bells go off.

Magneo has forgotten about his shields again. He took blows from Galactus, the Phoenix and Proteus with those. Also it seems very out of character for him to threaten Kyle. Not to mention very poort tactics of him, the one person he is forbidden to kill as a hostage?

And Rachel and Jean can restore the memories Wanda is missing? How? There is no Cerebro backup, do they carry a set off all of Wandas memories around in their head?

I mean, clearly those came from the Wanda we see fighting, but where does Rachel and Jean think they came from?

[tinygaylaura]

From the end of the issue, something strange is going on so I susect that when we learn the full story that might explain why "Wanda" (If this is in fact a resurrected Wanda) is acting so strangely here

"Speed and Demiurge. Not sure how Deniurge made it there, or why everyone is so calm that the Prince Consort of the united Skrull/Kree empire is in the room. That is enough political weight to generate its own gravity field. Warp reality on its own."

Mutantkind rules the galactic capital of the entire solar system, has a space program and the ruler of said galactic capital is in an on again/off again romance with someone who is part of a galactic empire so powerful they fought off the Shi'ar. And speaking of the Shi'ar Charles Xavier has been fucking their former empress for years and even had a kid with her...and that kid is now the ruler of the Shi'ar

It makes perfect sense that they're not intimidated/surprised by Billy's presence

"Magneo has forgotten about his shields again. He took blows from Galactus, the Phoenix and Proteus with those. Also it seems very out of character for him to threaten Kyle. Not to mention very poort tactics of him, the one person he is forbidden to kill as a hostage?"

Magneto was blufffing. His actions at the end of last issue were him play acting to try and get the Avengers to leave Krakoa and leave Wanda's body alone as Hope had asked him to do

"But why do the two keep calling Wanda mother? They both have perfectly good mothers already, and Billy has brothers. They've met Wanda maybe six-seven times. After growing up with a family (of a sort, for Tommy) she is a mentally unstable woman who has told them they are the back-in-time reincarnations of her dead-but-didn't-really-exist infants. (And her ex-husband says no, thats bull) The fact that you are taking that seriously should make at least Billys alarm bells go off."

Billy and Tommy both canonically accept Wanda as their mother

[gnarll]

"It makes perfect sense that they're not intimidated/surprised by Billy's presence"

But Billys learning about this should be a really major diplomatic crisis. Krakoas attitude to Wanda has already gotten them a cold shoulder from the Royal Couple. "Ops, we murdered her" is not a good look.

"Magneto was blufffing. His actions at the end of last issue were him play acting to try and get the Avengers to leave Krakoa and leave Wanda's body alone as Hope had asked him to do "

That does make sense. Magneto may be capable of roflstomping these particular avengers, but along with the Krakoa powers a fight does not have good odds.

"Billy and Tommy both canonically accept Wanda as their mother"

And that is... suspect in the extreme. Come on Billy, you know better than to believe reality warping strangers.

[tinygaylaura]

I mean it's not suspect because it's a canonical fact that she is

And Krakoa has been preparing for Billy learning about this for a while

In fact Abigail Brand has deliberately been working to put Krakoa in the good graces of the Skrull/Kree alliance specifically in preparation for the point that Billy finds out Wanda is/was/could be dead

[laughing_tree]

>Wanda calls Magneto "daddy". I can't remember her ever being that informal, even after she accepted his paternity she was never easy enough to call him anything else but "father" at best.

Yeah, that was weird to me too.

>Wanda knows Magneto is her father, but not that she and the Vision was married. But she found out her paternity after the marriage. If anything she should have thought the Whizzer was her father. How does that timeline work?

Except there's no reason to assume she doesn't remember marrying the Vision because the "wife" she's confused by is Virginia Vision, not herself. No offense, but it starts to feel like you're actively looking to find things to criticize.

>Speed and Demiurge. Not sure how Deniurge made it there, or why everyone is so calm that the Prince Consort of the united Skrull/Kree empire is in the room. That is enough political weight to generate its own gravity field. Warp reality on its own.

Even setting aside the ease of interstellar travel in the Marvel universe, Wiccan can teleport.

The X-Men and Avengers are used to dealing with gods and cosmic entities. Why wouldn't they be calm around royalty?

>But why do the two keep calling Wanda mother? They both have perfectly good mothers already, and Billy has brothers. They've met Wanda maybe six-seven times. After growing up with a family (of a sort, for Tommy) she is a mentally unstable woman who has told them they are the back-in-time reincarnations of her dead-but-didn't-really-exist infants. (And her ex-husband says no, thats bull) The fact that you are taking that seriously should make at least Billys alarm bells go off.

They've long ago accepted Wanda as a mother. As far back as Gillen/McKelvie's Young Avengers, they were referring to her as such, if not earlier. Adopted kids thinking of both their biological parents and adoptive parents as their parents is hardly unheard of, in real life or in fiction. You're acting like it has to be one or the other.

>Magneo has forgotten about his shields again.

Northstar has superspeed so can reach him before he has time to activate it. And he has no reason to *already* have it activated in that situation, since no on was fighting.

>Not to mention very poort tactics of him, the one person he is forbidden to kill as a hostage?

He can't take a mutant hostage because there's no threat in killing someone who won't stay dead.

>And Rachel and Jean can restore the memories Wanda is missing?

They didn't. They infodumped using their own knowledge and memories.

[gnarll]

< The X-Men and Avengers are used to dealing with gods and cosmic entities. Why wouldn't they be calm around royalty?>

I don't mean that they would be intimidated by it, I mean that Billy showing up a crisis. And it is much more of a political issue than Odin or the Watcher wandering in, because Krakoas strained relationship with Wanda has been a major issue between Krakoa and the Kree/Skrull empire. And then she is apparently murdered and Billy just wandering in should be a massive major "Oh Shit" moment with the superpower empire. His political power makes this a disaster.

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< The X-Men and Avengers are used to dealing with gods and cosmic entities. Why wouldn't they be calm around royalty?>

I don't mean that they would be intimidated by it, I mean that Billy showing up a crisis. And it is much more of a political issue than Odin or the Watcher wandering in, because Krakoas strained relationship with Wanda has been a major issue between Krakoa and the Kree/Skrull empire. And then she is apparently murdered and Billy just wandering in should be a massive major "Oh Shit" moment with the superpower empire. His political power makes this a disaster.

<They have long ago accepted Wanda as a mother. As far back as Gillen/McKelvie's Young Avengers, they were referring to her as such, if not earlier. Adopted kids thinking of both their biological parents and adoptive parents as their parents is hardly unheard of, in real life or in fiction. You're acting like it has to be one or the other.>

It is extremely peculiar in this case. Theres no evidence, no DNA, they are too old... After they are young adults, they meet a woman with a history of mental illness who claims that they are the reincarnations of her dead/never existed infants, and they are supposed to accept that just like that? Vision didn't.

Thats why I said that this should make alarm bells ring with Billy at least. After the worry Teddy had about being Billys daydream, the fact that they are just accepting such an, on the face of it outlandish claim from a reality-warper seems suspect in the extreme.

<Northstar has superspeed so can reach him before he has time to activate it. And he has no reason to *already* have it activated in that situation, since no on was fighting.>

Why would he lower them, with the Avengers right in front of him? I mean, it seems exceptionally trusting. Trusting his fellow man is not a character trait of his, to put it mildly.

<He can't take a mutant hostage because there's no threat in killing someone who won't stay dead.>

There is a considerable number of strategies available to him besides taking a hostage. Hiding behind humans is not really his modus operandi. And he wasn't doing so badly against the Avengers.

<They didn't. They infodumped using their own knowledge and memories.>

They were taking about restoring her whole memory. And it seems really peculiar for Afterlife-Wanda to lose memories at the same times as they downloaded memories into physical Wanda if that was Rachel and Jeans own recap.

<Except there's no reason to assume she doesn't remember marrying the Vision because the "wife" she's confused by is Virginia Vision, not herself. >

You're right I missed that.

<No offense, but it starts to feel like you're actively looking to find things to criticize.>

I am just so worn down by paying for stories of characters that the authors do not try to keep even minimally consistent.

The fights have not been a major draw since about 1981. I've been following the characters. And generally, what you get is someone of the same appearance but with a different character, powers and sometimes history because the authors didn't make even a minimal effort or though "their version" would be better. I lose a lot of trust in things that are off being hints or part of a story, because so very frequently its just simple error or carelessness.

[laughing_tree]

>I don't mean that they would be intimidated by it, I mean that Billy showing up a crisis. And it is much more of a political issue than Odin or the Watcher wandering in, because Krakoas strained relationship with Wanda has been a major issue between Krakoa and the Kree/Skrull empire. And then she is apparently murdered and Billy just wandering in should be a massive major "Oh Shit" moment with the superpower empire. His political power makes this a disaster.

I don't see how that matters here. It was -already- a disaster before Billy turned up, and everyone was already treating it as top priority. You can't go past Defcon One because it's already Defcon One.

>It is extremely peculiar in this case. Theres no evidence, no DNA, they are too old... After they are young adults, they meet a woman with a history of mental illness who claims that they are the reincarnations of her dead/never existed infants, and they are supposed to accept that just like that?

It's continuity that they accepted it long ago. If they were suddenly written as not accepting it, the writer would be accused of mischaracterizing and not doing the research.

>Why would he lower them, with the Avengers right in front of him?

Because they were no longer fighting. I have no trouble believing a Magneto who just got out of an injury-induced coma isn't going to be keeping his forcefield on perpetually in a non-combat situation.

>There is a considerable number of strategies available to him besides taking a hostage. Hiding behind humans is not really his modus operandi. And he wasn't doing so badly against the Avengers.

He's pragmatic and we saw that he and Hope were desperate to get the Avengers to leave ASAP. Either because they didn't want them seeing the body or for some other reason yet to be revealed.

>They were taking about restoring her whole memory. And it seems really peculiar for Afterlife-Wanda to lose memories at the same times as they downloaded memories into physical Wanda if that was Rachel and Jeans own recap.

If it was just a matter of uploading memories, I don't see why Rachel would need her mom's help. What they said was they're going to "fill in her missing memories," which is ambiguous. I took it to me "fill in" like when you ask someone to fill you in on what you missed.

We also don't know that afterlife Wanda lost her memories at the same moment. My assumption was it happened when her body got resurrected, like part of her was being split off.

>I am just so worn down by paying for stories of characters that the authors do not try to keep even minimally consistent.

But you seem selective about that consistency, like wanting them to ignore that the twins have accepted Wanda as their mother for years now, because you don't like that development.

>And generally, what you get is someone of the same appearance but with a different character, powers and sometimes history because the authors didn't make even a minimal effort or though "their version" would be better. I lose a lot of trust in things that are off being hints or part of a story, because so very frequently its just simple error or carelessness.

I get that and often feel the same, but I think it's an inevitable consequence when the amount of continuity only ever gets larger. And exponentially larger at that, since the number of books and how interconnected they are just keeps going up over the years.

And if you want to target writers for minimal research effort, I don't think the writer who bothered to account for <a href="https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Ginny_Guzman_(Earth-616)>a minor character who appeared in two stories in 2013</a> when writing her recent Mojoverse story or who picked up a dropped X-Factor plotline from 2012 is the right target.

[fra080389]

It wasn't Wanda to say them they were her dead children, it was Billy who literally hunted her to convince her he and Tommy were her children. Re-read the Children Crusade. Billy was the one obsessed by the idea Wanda was his mother. Also, Billy is a big superhero nerd with the same power of Wanda and a mysterious look alike with the same powers of Quicksilver. It's like you were a big fan of Leonardo Di Caprio and growing up began to look identical to him and he happened to have a child with your same name.

[lordultimus]

Wow, even if meant ironically, that's still a really condescending thing to say about your husband, Northstar.

[deh_tommy]

I can’t wait to see what sort of insecurities and internalised bullying Shogo will grow up with.

To be fair though, going off their facial expressions I kind of took that more as him going “He’s only human, aren’t we all” or “We all have our own ways of dealing with stress” or something like that.

[gnarll]

Being a dragon might work in Shogos favor.

[cainofdreaming]

Apparently he's going to lose that ability, and soon, unless he stays in the Otherworld and basically becomes a changeling.

[tinygaylaura]

Yes growing up with a loving mother who would fight to the death to protect him in a loving and diverse place full of heroes and he sometimes gets to go adventure in a magical land and become a dragon

The horror..the horror

[deh_tommy]

She was loving enough, but nowadays she keeps putting his life in danger and bringing him along to things that are inappropriate for a child of his age. Plus there was that one bit where she was all “you’re okay, you’re not REALLY human, you’re a dragon” to him. Krakoa is full of unrepentant and unredeemed monsters walking around free and the society only really loves folks for their genes, otherwise they’re encouraged to literally kill themselves to be “corrected”.

[tinygaylaura]

As opposed to the country he used to live in which was putting people like his mother in concentration camps less than a year ago and elected Wilson Fisk as Mayor of New York

"the society only really loves folks for their genes, otherwise they’re encouraged to literally kill themselves to be “corrected”."

That literally has not been shown happening in any published comic

In fact what we have seen is the loved ones and family of depowered characters reassuring them that they don't have to enter Crucible if they're not sure about it

[deh_tommy]

That literally happened in the very issue Crucible was introduced. The loved ones reassuring them doesn’t really mean much when their society as a whole pressures them into it. But we’re getting off-topic here: I don’t think this is the usual anti-human supremacy complex rhetoric so much as Northstar going “he’s a normal human being, a guy’s gotta eat”.

My memory’s a little foggy. When were the mutant concentration camps last year?

[tinygaylaura]

They weren't a year ago IRL, they were two years ago or maybe two and a half in Real Life Time

It was during that Uncanny X-men book. And at the same time it was happening the governments of the world in the Marvel universe were also attempting genocide against the very possibility of mutantkind existing with their mutant "Vaccine"

And nothing like what you are describing happened in the issue where Crucible appeared. In fact the ony person we saw feeling positve about Crucible was the person who chose of their own free will to do it against the urgings of their family and it wasn't because of peer pressure, it was because losing their mutant abilities had left them utterly miserable and depressed because they missed being able to be who they were before M-Day stole a huge part of their identity from them

[deh_tommy]

In fact the ony person we saw feeling positve about Crucible was the person who chose of their own free will to do it against the urgings of their family and it wasn't because of peer pressure, it was because losing their mutant abilities had left them utterly miserable and depressed because they missed being able to be who they were before M-Day stole a huge part of their identity from them

...and she felt her only recourse was to kill herself. Egged on by the mastermind behind the Crucible in the first place who essentially reinforced and confirmed how she felt. So a suicidally depressed teen was encouraged by that evil -|Å|-sshole to kill herself in spite of the love and support of her family because she thought her life had no value after a very traumatic incident that happened to her. This keeps getting worse every elaboration. Do you not realise the horrific implications here?

[tinygaylaura]

I don't think it counts as "Killing yourself" when you're literally brought back to life better than ever five seconds later using magic eggs

[zachbeacon]

I've long thought Kyle could do better.

But I don't want them to break up.

My fear since the moment they outed Bobby is that an Iceman/Northstar pairing is inevitable and I can't stress enough how much I hate that idea.

(Also weird to see Northstar with such a big role here when he and Quicksilver are functionality the same character but only one of them would have a personal stake)

[tinygaylaura]

It's pretty clearly a joke here

[lordultimus]

I got that, it's still a pretty (for the lack of a better term) racy thing to say.

[akodo_rokku]

Will this comic ever make sense and not stink of half-assed writing?

[shakalooloo]

No. There's no hint of an actual trial, and nobody present thinks to connect Wanda's memories being restored to the almost immediate appearance of the monsters. This story is just stupid filler to explain away the Scarlet Witch problem extended over far more pages than are necessary.

[blues32]

Any chance Billy did this? Wanted his mom to not be dead, boom. She's not dead?