Once & Future #20 - "Monarchies in the U.K." Part 2

[laughing_tree]

The Englishness of the story, the idea that a dumb version Englishness is a story that has driven us to distraction and bad decisions. Britain is an addict still recovering from the high of empire. -- Kieron Gillen

Comments

[arilou_skiff]

This is just so frustrating. Like, the concept, different ideas of Arthur and what that says about british/english identity, is solid. Except the versions are so weird. Like you could do one early Welsh version, one Chretien de Troyes version, one Mallory verison and maybe one High Empire Tennyson version (then include a few more modern interpretations) but he is just taking and combining random bits with even less sense. Why is Galahad with Welsh Arthur? he first appears in a 13th century french version? Etc.

Like, for this to work I think you'd have to have either more solid grasp or just better care on the history of Arthuriana and how it evolved, and the history of ideas of british/english nationalism and how *that* has evolved.

[laughing_tree]

Galahad here isn't the character from stories but rather a regular human going by that name.

[shakalooloo]

I'm wondering what the explanation will be for the Man-Gorgon we see at the end.

[lizard_of_aus]

I'm guessing it's entirely based on the fact that there's Nova Roma architecture.

[donnblake]

The Roman Baths at Bath actually have a pediment displaying what's taken (at least some) to be an unusually masculine Gorgon head.

https://www.romanbaths.co.uk/key-objects-collection

[shakalooloo]

Weird that this one doesn't have the beard, then.

[donnblake]

Yeah, questions of textual accuracy aside, none of the mythological designs in this seem drawn from any particular visual source that I'm familiar with. It just stands out a bit more here in that "Visual representation of a beardy guy with snakes," is pretty much the entirety of what we have for the Gorgon(?) of Bath.

[shakalooloo]

Well, it seems that NuArthur and Lancelot are Liefelders - that they are the medieval equivalent of an XXXXXtreeeme redesign of classic characters. Which is bizarre, given that they did more of a toning-down of the older myths than a sensationalising.

[numeronone]

Considering that a main source of inspiratiom for the concept is the Brendan Fraser/Rachel Weisz/Arnold Vosloo version of "The Mummy", I'd say mythological accuracy is not the foremost concern here

[numeronone]

I'm fairly certain that New Merlin is really Elaine pulling a fast one on Merlin Classic.

Also: I love how mad this all is.

[blues32]

Oh, c'mon! The gorgon doesn't even have pupils! How can it meet your gaze without pupils? To say nothing of the fact that its male. There are THREE gorgons and they're all sisters. Two of which are immortal.

[lordultimus]

Look again, that gorgon has pupils, they're just really tiny.

[donnblake]

I mentioned this above, but this male gorgon associated with Bath seems to be a reference to a specific figure depicted at that place. Actually, I just spotted this, but the image in question (complete with snakey-beard) appears to be on this Gorgon's belt buckle.

[servant_iskandar]

Which gels with the original idea that you can pull all these heroes / characters / legends... or a variant thereof into our world if the story is there, is big enough, and has enough traction (people knowing about it, retelling it, viewing the original artifact in this kind or augmenting it by living in the right place).

Also, that you can hijack a story by putting in a self-insert / analog (or drawing a parallel to a situation there, as it was with both Duncan and Elaine).

It's a bit similar to the situation with the Servants in the Fate franchise, except that here the power of belief (and prejudice, especially racism or nationalism...) tends clearly more towards extreme actualizations of the heroes.

I'm more worried about this point, actually: Gillen did a great deal of work estabilishing this and the point was a reflection about how certain things drive national identity and the darker side of having one, and the power of narrative being a shaping force in our lives (especially any narrative that purports manifest destinies, as with the opening quote).

Now though I feel that we've reached a point where nearly everyone comes as unsympathetic and unrelatable, and saving the day is left to yet another deus ex from Gran or that it will entail sacrificing the relatable, kind main pairing.

[cainofdreaming]

I always found it weird that Medusa was considered part of the family. I mean, she was born human. Did two more of her sisters get cursed, or was she adopted by the actual gorgons, what?

[sabertoothlotus]

Well, there are multiple versions of the myth, with competing origins. Classical mythology isn't based on a single written account of things, so there are a LOT of discrepancies and contradictions (just try figuring out in what order Heracles 12 labors happened, or why he had to do them) as stories varied regionally.