X-Men Unlimited #9: X-Men Green, Chapter Five

[superboyprime]

Comments

[rfmcdonald]

This is escalating.

[numeronone]

"Is that...a Pterodactyl man?"

"HE'S GOT A GUN"

[remial]

"I don't WANT to cure cancer!"

[tinygaylaura]

I understood that reference!

[leahandillyana]

I see Nature Girl is one step from deciding to eradicate humanity. Nice. I wonder if she will become a villainess for good by the end of the arc. The younger girl has strong dark triad tendencies at least. She'd make a fantastic evil sidekick like Harley Quinn or Flatline. I honestly enjoy the story.

[deh_tommy]

I don’t know, this just feels to me like probably one of the safest and most generic routes you could take her down.

EDIT: Wait, are you talking about Curse? Yeah, she’s fun.

[onsokumaru]

Black Mamba's dark force powers are different every time I see her.

[icon_uk]

IIRC it used to be she had an implant in her head that allowed her to sense a target's deepest desires and could "shed a skin" of darkforce energy which would take the form of the target's fantasy figure who would then suffocate or crush them.

I could see her adjusting/learning to use it to produce a traumatic image too (like Dani Moonstar in reverse, I sippose).

[silverhammerman]

You know it's bad when even the Z-list supervillain/private security is pointing out that your approach to environmental praxis is stupid. Also, some of the things Black Mamba points out about Krakoa are both good criticisms here (Nature Girl is basically acting from a profound place of privilege, in that she lives, or at least lived, in a veritable paradise on Krakoa) and, perhaps unwittingly, good criticisms of the current X-line as a whole. Do any of these people pay rent? Do any of them do normal things? Struggle to get by and thrive?

Can't believe that haphazardly slashing around with her antlers is apparently Nature Girl's go-to move in a fist fight, nor that this is somehow effective.

[deh_tommy]

I’m just peeved they used the store manager here as a strawman and imply his death was actually justified.

[mindsweeper]

I don’t think it’s implied Nature Girl is right or her actions are justified. At least, that’s not been my reaction. She’s a villain who needs to be stopped. The story’s not great but Logan and Xavier have tried to stop her. They’re just somehow out of their league against Curse and Nature Girl.

[deh_tommy]

Except they don’t go “Yo Nature Girl, maybe going on a murderous rampage on innocent people is morally reprehensible and you’re just attacking the symptoms of a larger issue instead of going straight for the roots”, they go “trust me, this ain’t gonna change anything, if the human race were capable of change they’d have done it a long time ago”. And maybe I’m seeing red, but the vision of the store manager here is framed to me like he’s just deflecting the blame (“I’m not at fault for killing that turtle! I mean, that bag came from my own store and I’m guilty of using the sort of plastic product that killed them, but that turtle had it coming! You’re just overreacting!”).

[shakalooloo]

I'm peeved that the Darkforce, in attempting to bring home to a victim the true consequences of their actions in an effort to crush their resistance, went for manifesting the weakest possible blame game. The dead dude seems 'slightly annoyed' by his death. Unconvincing.

[blues32]

Manager? I thought he just did check out.

[alliterator]

They didn't? The store manager here is an illusion generated by Black Mamba, not the real one.

[deh_tommy]

A pretty pathetic illusion that digs thats own grave and the most that can muster as a counterargument for his death is “C’mon, girl”.

[blues32]

I just had a thought. It isn't Black Mamba creating the illusion, it's her manipulating the Darkforce to show an illusion. She can't control what the victim sees exactly. So maybe the poor attempt at guilting her shows how little guilt she's actually capable of feeling? Or perhaps I give the writer too much credit.

[mindsweeper]

It’s interesting what counts as privilege these days. I’d argue that Mutants would have more privilege if they had to pay for things but were able to live in their home countries without constant fear of being ostracized, hunted, murdered, imprisoned, etc. by their own governments, fellow citizens, and countless well-armed hate groups. Especially someone like Nature Girl who has an obvious mutation. The fact that they don’t have to pay to live in their safe space seems like a meaningless point compared to the reason Krakoa was needed in the first place.

[lordultimus]

Mutants are only subject to mutant laws and are immortal. None of what you said applies anymore.

[alliterator]

They are privileged now, but they weren't a year ago. Does not having to pay rent or getting to live on a tropical island make up for the years and years spent living in fear and pain?

[lordultimus]

What? That wasn't the discussion. The discussion was mutants currently having privilege, not whether gaining privilege makes up for previously not having privilege.

[alliterator]

But saying "They have privilege, therefore they can't be a part of this discussion" is stupid, because they only privilege NOW and didn't have it, like, five minutes ago.

[lordultimus]

I. Didn't. Say. That. I said that they are privileged and none of the arguments of them being oppressed count anymore.

[alliterator]

Really? Just because they are privileged on Krakoa doesn't make them not oppressed. I mean, a military commando squad invaded, like, a few months ago and killed a bunch of them, so it's just lucky they can come back now. And outside of Krakoa, they are still being oppressed and forcibly used against their will. So you're argument doesn't even stand up.

[lordultimus]

...Privileged=Not oppressed.

You do remember the whole "Krakoa will protect all mutants whether they live on Krakoa or not", right? That's the whole point of Krakoa's "mutants will only be subject to mutant laws". The fact that they can come back now is a sign that they're not oppressed because humans can't kill them anymore.

Sure bad things are still done to mutants, but bad things are done to the upper middle class, does that make them "oppressed"?

[alliterator]

"You do remember the whole "Krakoa will protect all mutants whether they live on Krakoa or not", right?"

No, because that's not a thing. All mutants are welcome in Krakoa and can have amnesty living there. But if you are NOT living there, unfortunately, you are still subject to the prejudices and oppression of the humans around you. This is clearly seen in Ed Brisson's New Mutants run, where Beak and his family DIDN'T live on Krakoa and were attacked by some anti-mutant terrorists who wanted to hold them hostage for money. The New Mutants tried to fix the situation, but unfortunately both of Beak's parents ended up killed. So yeah, that still sounds like they are oppressed outside of Krakoa.

"Sure bad things are still done to mutants, but bad things are done to the upper middle class, does that make them "oppressed"?"

If bad things happened to the upper middle class because of their race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, etc, then yes. A person of color doesn't suddenly live in a world without racism just because he's middle class or even upper class.

[tinygaylaura]

Agreed

Mutants are safe from anti-mutant racism on Krakoa. They still have to deal with it everywhere else. The only thing that has changed is that some countries now can't openly fund anti-mutant violence. And personally I don't consider "The racists in charge of the country you live in cannot openly fund the creation of killer robots to hunt you down with" to be an example of "Privelege"

"If bad things happened to the upper middle class because of their race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, etc, then yes. A person of color doesn't suddenly live in a world without racism just because he's middle class or even upper class."

Exactly

It's perfectly possible for a member of a minority to experience bigotry, persecution and oppression based on their race, sexuality or the fact that they're transgender or non-binary regardless of their success.

John Boyega is a sucessful and wealthy celebrity. That doesn't mean the racism he's experienced isn't racism. Him being rich and famous doesn't mean he no longer experiences racism or that people being racist to him for being black becomes okay

[blues32]

More privileged than LIVING FOREVER? Than their own living island? THEIR OWN PLANET?! And they can easily colonize other planets. They can appear all over the globe at any time via gates that only work for them. They've planted a flag in Otherworld, where they truly have no right to be.

At what point do they no longer get a free pass?

[alliterator]

At what point is racism over?

[blues32]

Probably around the point where the oppressed races in question colonize their own planet. It's really hard to think of someone as lesser when they literally turned a dead planet into a lush paradise.

Then again, the way mutants talk about "human thinking" is a bit racist. They didn't used to think and say things like that. That's what made the X-Men the heroes they were, really. They didn't respond to the hate that way and, because of this, mutant became an accepted norm in the Marvel Universe. So much so that Norman Osborn thought it would be good publicity to make his own X-Men group. When did it all fall apart?

[alliterator]

"Probably around the point where the oppressed races in question colonize their own planet."

Man, I didn't realize going to a brand new planet suddenly meant that racism was over. Boy oh boy, I hope we get there soon!

"They didn't respond to the hate that way and, because of this, mutant became an accepted norm in the Marvel Universe."

Mutants were never accepted in the Marvel Universe, not widespread.

"So much so that Norman Osborn thought it would be good publicity to make his own X-Men group."

No, he didn't. The Dark X-Men were a group of evil mutants that worked for Osborn, sure, but they were not a public group. He didn't use them for publicity, he used them because he wanted some insight into mutants and why not use mutants to do that?

[blues32]

It's really hard to be racist to people who live on another planet. I mean, they can try yelling at the sky, but I don't think they'd be heard.

Where weren't mutants widely accepted back in the 80s and 90s? Yes, you had the occasional hate group (The Right, The Purifiers, etc) but it never ended well for them and nobody shed a tear for their loss. What was it, "Man Kills" where Reverend Stryker gets shot and the police ignored it since he was threatening to kill Kitty Pryde at the time?

[alliterator]

"It's really hard to be racist to people who live on another planet."

I mean, you might as well say "It's really hard to be racist to people who live on another continent" but a lot of people in America are super racist against people who live in African countries and Asian countries and, hell, any country that isn't America. Distance doesn't really have anything to do with racism.

"Where weren't mutants widely accepted back in the 80s and 90s?"

When the government made an entire program called "Project Wideawake." Oh and "Project Armageddon" and "Weapon Plus" and, holy crap, let's not get started on the Canadian government who had Dreamland, a mutant death camp.

What was it, "Man Kills" where Reverend Stryker gets shot and the police ignored it since he was threatening to kill Kitty Pryde at the time?

One cop does not equal widespread acceptance.

[blues32]

Sadly, governments rarely represent the feelings of those they govern. None of these projects were publicly known. That and most of those programs weren't targeted toward mutants. Project Wideawake was for super humans in general. Weapon Plus didn't just work on mutants either. They used animals, humans, whatever. Nuke was part of the Weapon Plus program. So was Luke Cage. Project Armageddon was almost entirely Stephen Lang's creation, not those he worked for. He openly admits to tricking them into getting the funding he needed to create the X-Sentinels and such.You're right about the last one though I think it was called "Neverland", not "Dreamland".

One cop may not equal acceptance, but the fact the entire thing was televised suggests that few had a problem with letting the matter drop. Kitty showed all those watching the ugliness inside Stryker that he gussied up with religious dogma. I think Kitty has been responsible for a few leaps forward in Mutant/Human relations, come to think of it.

[alliterator]

"Sadly, governments rarely represent the feelings of those they govern."

And yet we never saw any widespread protests against these projects when they came to light. You keep trying to say that widespread acceptance of mutants was the norm in the Marvel Universe, but the only "proof" you have is one cop who shot someone who was *literally* about to kill a kid. Imagine instead if he had been aiming at Nightcrawler. Would the cop have shot him then?

"Project Wideawake was for super humans in general"

No, it was specifically for mutants. The Sentinels were specifically designed to go after mutants, they just outgrew their programming and decided to go after superhumans and then just humans.

"Weapon Plus didn't just work on mutants either."

Most of them were mutants, though. Just because some were not mutants doesn't make it not anti-mutant.

" Project Armageddon was almost entirely Stephen Lang's creation, not those he worked for. He openly admits to tricking them into getting the funding he needed to create the X-Sentinels and such."

He may have "tricked" then for the X-Sentinels, but Project Armageddon was also the place where Domino was raised and tortured. Repeat: they raised and tortured a mutant who was a child and nobody had any issues with it.

"One cop may not equal acceptance, but the fact the entire thing was televised suggests that few had a problem with letting the matter drop."

I don't see how it being television meant that the people watching were somehow disabused of their mutant phobia. That's not how it works for racism or sexism or transphobia.

"I think Kitty has been responsible for a few leaps forward in Mutant/Human relations, come to think of it."

Maybe some, but Kate also looks 100% human. If the representative to mutantdom was Nightcrawler or Beak or Glob? How many humans would look at Glob and run away in fear?

[blues32]

Actually, most of Weapon Plus's projects weren't mutants. That was Weapon X. Weapon X was supposed to just be Wolverine, but thanks to Malcom Colcord, it became a whole series of projects of its own. While Weapon Plus included a couple of mutants (Weapon III was the Skinless Man (or rather the one who would become the Skinless Man after he was flayed) and Weapon XIII was Fantomex), it was a wide variety of attempts. From Weapon I, aka Project Rebirth to Weapon VI, which create Luke Cage. Deathloks, mutated animals, whatever they could use to make something dangerous, I guess.

I don't remember if it was a cop that fired the shot at Stryker, but the response from everyone else was, "Uh...should we do something about this?" "Nah. The asshole had it coming." Whether or not they would have done the same for Nightcrawler, I couldn't say. It wasn't JUST because Kitty looked human, it was what she said to Stryker before he turned on her. Can't remember what, just that the basic gist of it was that Nightcrawler was a good man who, admittedly (and for good reason as it turned out), looked like a demon while Stryker may look like a pious man while being a bigoted monster. The fact this sent him into a murderous rage only helped her case.

A great moment in the X-Men series is when Nightcrawler's image inducer broke. Prior to that, he would use it when going out in public...and for making people laugh. After a while, Kurt dared to venture outside without any sort of disguise and was delighted with the response. Nobody attacked him or anything. Some stared, but who wouldn't? Especially when he started jumping around in celebration. Besides, Nightcrawler liked that sort of attention (the kind that doesn't end in an attempt on his life). Beast too, had a similar outing. I think people asked for his autograph (he was an Avenger at the time, I think).

As for Beak or Glob...can you HONESTLY say you wouldn't freak out if you saw Glob coming at you? He's a big pink mass of waxy goo in the shape of a human body with visible internal organs. Beak is kinda freaky looking too. Remember, this is the same universe where actual monsters are also liable to start walking the streets and killing people. Anole, however, never had a problem. Well, I think people called it cheating when he used his tongue to catch a ball, but that's about it. Mercury could go out to eat with X-23 in a restaurant with no issue. Only problem they might have had was with Laura cutting herself under the table.

My main point is that the things that happen now in the comics...it didn't happen that long ago. There were more good people than bad ones by far. The sudden turn just makes no sense. It's like by bringing the OG X-Men into the present, Beast brought that time's bigotry with him. Which frankly wouldn't surprise me given how badly Hank screws up. Not that he does so a lot, but when he does...WOW, he screws things up.

[alliterator]

I remember Kurt stopped using his image inducer, but he also wore long coats and hats. He didn't just go out willy nilly. And remember, when Xavier first met him it was by saving him from a mob that wanted to KILL him.

You still haven't shown me any proof that there was, at any period, widespread acceptance of mutants.

[tinygaylaura]

"Probably around the point where the oppressed races in question colonize their own planet."

Colonialism refers to the theft of land from an indigenous people. Mars is a lifeless lump of rock

Mutantkind terraformed Mars and settled there.

"Then again, the way mutants talk about "human thinking" is a bit racist"

No it isn't

There's no such thing as "Reverse-racism"

[iamrman]

Wow. Everybody is awful in this. The only one I symathise with is the mercenary.

[erikred]

You take that back. Curse is a delightfully amoral sociopath, er, child.

"Now I'm out! Now I'm in!" is going to keep me guffawing for days.

[tinygaylaura]

I'm glad it's not just me who adores the little bastard

[shakalooloo]

Are we going to find out at the end that Nature Girl was possessed by the Green Knight from 'Knights of Pendragon'?

[blues32]

How ridiculously half-assed. "Don't you think you overreacted?" Is that the best the Darkforce can do? Why not, "I had a family! Friends! And you ended my life because someone else didn't recycle!" Or "Do you really believe a turtle understands the concept of revenge? Can you really say that you're listening to the planet and not your own damaged mind?"

[numeronone]

Might have said this before, but I'd not be surprised to find the writer of this is *against* environmental activism and deliberately writing it as badly as possible to put us all off.

[alliterator]

Duggan also wrote an oil company hiring a supervillain to protect them. He's not pro-oil company.

[blues32]

Well, no one is pro Roxxon.

[tinygaylaura]

It feels pretty clear to me that the oil company is the villain here