NS: *inhuman fangirl squeeing*

[deh_tommy]

I don’t think anyone’s done a thread for this show yet outside of talking about the ending, so here we go.

Ms. Marvel has come and gone! What did everyone here think? Was it good? Bad? A bit of both? Feel free to talk below, and as always be wary of spoilers (marked or otherwise).

Comments

[lordultimus]

Seems to me if you're going to have Kamala be descended from a secretive clan of superpowered people, you may as well have used the Inhumans.

[dianakingston]

To be fair, she probably was meant to be a mutant from the start. She just happened to come in at a time where Marvel was pushing Inhumans very, very hard

[lordultimus]

I don't think the Clan Destine are meant to be mutants here.

[cyberghostface]

IDK about that specifically but I remember how Moon Girl wasn't supposed to be an Inhuman but the editorial forced it on the original writer.

Probably the most pathetic example of the Inhumans push was changing "Mutant Growth Hormone" to "Inhuman Growth Human". Especially since MGH referred to any mutate period, not just people with the X-Gene. Spider-Man (who got his powers from radioactivity) and Mattie Franklin (who got her powers from magic) were both eligible donors.

[cyberghostface]

The only one who wanted the Inhumans to be a thing was Perlmutter.

[lordultimus]

So? Doesn't stop the Clan Destine from essentially being Inhumans.

[shakalooloo]

When was the last time Kamala's Inhuman heritage even got mentioned in the comics? They're trying to forget it there, no need to drag it into the MCU.

[jgraygaming]

This has been my favorite MCU show thus far. Much of the script came directly from the comic books (enough I believe Ms. Wilson deserved a writing credit) and they were spot on in their costuming and visuals (the appearance of Kamila's dorkflap hat was delightful). From what I've seen and read, the Muslim and Pakistani aspects of plot and the world were done well (though I know there was some concern about the djinn aspect of the plot as many felt it was like making an Irish hero descended from leprechauns).

I know a lot of people have suggested it felt like a CW show but I think they're missing the mark there. This felt more like a callback to My So Called Life with the animations replacing the narration. In other words, a fairly authentic teen show with superhero aspects.

Kamala was absolutely delightful. The supporting cast was spot on, from her parents to her friends and I could see the seeds being laid for the LGBTQ+ subplots the comic introduced to be explored in a sequel series (likely after Marvels).

If I have one complaint it is this. This was an 8 to 10 episode series compacted into a 6 episode series. As a result I feel it didn't spend enough time on establishing Kamala's day to day life once the plot began rolling. Her relationship with Zoe, for example, could have used a bit more building. There's also some tonal whiplash between episodes they could have smoothed out if they had been able to decompressed it a bit more.

Overall though?

Loved it so much.

[mindsweeper]

Overall, I really enjoyed it. It started and ended really well. The casting was great. Kamala was super fun, as were her buddies. I geeked out at key points. And it inspired me to learn more about the Partition.

The change in powers and origin didn’t bother me at all. Powers aren’t character, at least not in her case. Kamala has always been more important for inhumans than inhumans have been to her story.

I thought the middle was messy with trying to do too much, too fast. Kamala didn’t need some world-ending threat to face. A six-episode origin series without that would’ve been better. The villains were the weakest point, both Clan Destine and Damage Control. They were wasted and worthless.

I assume we’ll learn more about the blue arm and Nega/Quantum bands in The Marvels.

[iamrman]

I mostly enjoyed the series. I was initially concerned about the change to Kamala's powers and how she seemed to have stole Quasar's power set.

The djinn business didn't interest me in the least. I even ended up skipping episode 5.

I agree that the casting was spot on. Kamala was so damn sweet and I loved how supportive her parents were. I also appreciated the lack of secret identity drama.

I don't even hate the big spoiler at the end of episode 6. However, it could just be another red herring just like the phoney Quicksilver in WandaVision.

[deh_tommy]

b o h n e r

[dianakingston]

Bit of both, I think. In terms of casting it was flawless - Kamala, her parents, Amir, Bruno, Nakia and Kamran were all perfect. And Alysia Reiner's ideal for playing asshole ICE/NSA-analogs.

Structure-wise, I can't help feeling like this was somehow two seasons smashed together: the Karachi arc in 3-4 really should've been an entire second season, set after Kamala establishes herself as Ms. Marvel and has her "trial by fire" vs. the Clandestines and Damage Control. As is, spending half the season overseas means she never really has the time to become a community darling (which the finale kind of hinges on), while at the same time we don't get any real depth to Kamala's family in Karachi, we speed through Kareem and the Red Daggers, and Sana just disappears after episode 4.

The weird thing is, up until now you can easily argue that every story the MCU has adapted has been streamlined and improved by the process: Civil War was better, WandaVision was better than pretty much any comics story the Scarlet Witch has ever been given, Shang-Chi was better by virtue of cutting loose a *lot* of racist baggage. This might be the first time the MCU falls short, because Wilson did pace Kamala's journey in a way that made sense, and the show doesn't.

[cyberghostface]

The Civil War comics were a bit of a mess but I think the movie made a mistake by having it come down to Steve and Tony only really going after each other because Tony saw how Bucky beat his parents to death.

I do think one major improvement was making it so the ultimatum was "You have to stop being a vigilante if you don't register" over "if you have any superhuman abilities period you have to enlist or we'll throw you into a gulag". As we saw when Luke Cage was just sitting in his home minding his own business.

[numeronone]

Re: that post title. I see what you did there!

[cyberghostface]

No interest in watching it but changing Kamala to a mutant complete with the X-Men theme had me doing this.

[nyadnar17]

Really, really enjoyed this show. Had like 2 sub par episode near the end IMO, but man that was a great show

[zachbeacon]

My opinion never really changed. It's an okay show but a terrible adaptation.

Even removing the controversial stuff like the powers and the origin, I just don't recognize this character as Kamala beyond the most basic surface level reading of the character. They stopped at "Muslim fangirl".

("No, she can't be smart. She already has a smart friend"
"No, She can't be responsible. She already has a responsible friend"
"Look, I know running into a car and pretending it didn't happen is contrary to the character in general but we REALLY want to put a joke here")

Which is a shame because the lead actress seemed to have a lot of enthusiasm about playing Ms Marvel.

[ironymaiden]

THIS. As far as I was concerned Nakia and Sheikh Abdullah were in a show with some other Pakistani-American super and her family.
I get making her a vidder instead of a writer, but making her fanworks unpopular was an unnecessary change as well.
I can't get over how in a region with such a distinctive accent ZERO characters have it. I always assumed that one of the reasons that people see Ms Marvel as a hometown hero (beyond her actions) is that they've heard her speak. Not even Bruno or Zoe?

[morallyambiguousscience]

I don't mind the mutant thing because you have the showrunners mentioning they want to use Lockjaw in season 2 of they get one.

Just make everyone's favorite teleporting dog a mutant.

[cyberghostface]

They'll probably make him an alien dog and have him being friends with Groot or Rocket.

[lordultimus]

Make all the Inhumans mutants.

[scorntx]

That's just silly.
Dogs can't be Mutants.


Except that one time.

[shakalooloo]

It was great. The character survived the translation to a different medium. The tone was the happy, upbeat superhero origin that it needed to be.

Best part was the unique visual style it used; where the other Marvels series have been pretty bland and interchangable look-wise, the bright, poppy use of the environment to display comicbook like thoughts and images was inspired.

[scorntx]

Mostly good, I think. Buuuuuut...
Like others have said, six episodes makes it feel very rushed in a lot of places, such as with the Clan, and Karachi. Or like two stories smushed into one.
Mother Khan didn't make a tremendous first impression.
But it is nice to have a Marvel superhero with actual, living parents, none of whom died for the purposes of Angst.
The time travel bit felt incredibly unnecessary, really.

And Nakia was pretty great.

[tcampbell1000]

I liked Kamala and her entire supporting cast, and I appreciated the amount of the show that spotlit Pakistani and Muslim culture. It can be tricky to be positive about that culture and make the whole cast likable without skimping on the conflict, but the show mostly managed this (more so in the earlier episodes, to be fair). Kamala's journey was absorbing and her friends and family were mostly worth following.

The villains, not so much. There were some interesting family dynamics between Kamran and Najma, but that was about it in terms of compelling or interesting human moments from Clan Destine or Damage Control. And I know that turning the latter organization into "the morally gray-to-black MIC, as opposed to SHIELD" didn't start here, but its portrayal in the series made me really miss Dwayne McDuffie. Plus, it was an oddly mixed message to have Kamran come within inches of proving the Damage Controllers' point--if Kamala hadn't hit him with "Here's how your mom really died, sorry, should've been more specific earlier", he clearly would've gone off like Carrie White. He nearly killed a bunch of people who were there to support him as it was. But wait...imprisoning superpowered teens as pre-emptive action is BAD...right?

I honestly couldn't care less whether Kamala is an Inhuman, a mutant, an Eternal, a Bangle Lantern, a super-soldier, or a Pakistani-Kryptonian, because in the current MCU context, it makes almost no difference. The whole mutant-vs.-Inhuman thing only mattered in the comics because mutants and Inhumans were both tribes that could claim Kamala (thus further complicating her quest for her identity). In the MCU, mutants haven't really been a thing up to now, and Inhumans don't seem to be a thing most people have heard of. (Movie Stephen Strange is a dick, but I don't think even he would be riffing on Black Bolt's name if the latter had achieved any fame on his own Earth.) So we'll associate her with the 22-year-old movie franchise that's been run into the ground instead of the TV series that's already been memoryholed? Sure, may as well. It was fun the last time we saw her with Wolverine.

Didn't MIND the changes to her powers, though I did think the behind-the-scenes reasoning was stupid. (Marvel, I promise, no one is going to care if you have two stretchy superheroes. Sometimes Plastic Man and Elongated Man are even in the same story and nobody blinks.) The stretchiness and embiggening and enshrinkening were arguably better metaphors for awkward adolescence, but the show includes plenty of awkwardness as she learns her powers, so okay. Wouldn't have been my call unless it was a budget issue, but I'll give this one a pass.

I'm sorry we didn't *quite* get the Koranic quote from her origin in the final episode, but I'll settle for the loose paraphrasing.

All in all, a solid B+. Would've been an A if the A-plots had been interesting enough to keep pace with the B-plots, characters, and culture.