Schism - #4

[sherkahn]

The argument.



The massive self-assembling, self repairing Sentinel unleashed at the end of last issue has swatted
away Logan into the Pacific, right towards Utopia.

The Sentinel has one command. Destroy Utopia island.

That massive feat Scott pulled to clear sentinels "off my lawn?" Meant nothing to it, as it got back up like professional wrestler the Undertaker. With the X-men scattered across the world fighting the other activated Sentinels, it's up to an exhausted Scott, the Five Lights, a few New X-men...
... and Wolverine.

Wolverine and Scott argue about sacrifice and escape. Not everyone will survive this if they stay and fight. Wolverine is against putting kids in harms way, Scott is pro-survival of the species as a united front.

Scott gives his command, Logan doesn't like it and walks away. The choice is given to the kids to follow Logan or stay and fight. They stay.

So Logan makes his own move.

Comments

[hawkmoondirge]

Jesus....this is actually decent. They have two very good points and don't throw the first punch until the final hour. While i found Logan to sound a bit crazy....it's out of context so no judging.

I feel Scott's side of the arguement is more realistic, where as Logan is the idealist, and the lack of dickishness.... This depresses me because i like both of them.

[crabby_lioness]

It's not OOC in light of what's happening in Aaron's Wolverine. Kids are a real sore point for Logan right now.

Yeah, I was surprised by how good this was..

[steverodgers5]

A really excellent issue. Even the pages posted here, don't quite do it justice.

Kudos to the creative team!

[darkknightjrk]

Yeah, now I'm definitely Team Logan. I get what Scott's trying to do, but Christ, man, you built Utopia all on your own--you can retreat, and then you can do it again.

And really, using the memory of a girl a guy loved to egg at him is not a good idea, especially when he has berzerker rage.

[crabby_lioness]

And yet Logan keeps it together. It's Scott who loses it.

[shanejayell]

Not to mention they still have the base back in San Fran too, right?

[jlbarnett]

Sentinels are an opponent you have to defeat.

[crabby_lioness]

Focus, gentlemen, focus!

[filthysize]

I wish I still give a shit about the X universe, because from what little I've seen of this event, it seems to be pretty good. of course it's Aaron, so I had an inkling, but still... This is like Civil War done right.

[darkknightjrk]

"This is like Civil War done right."

Basically, yes! :D

[omgwtflolbbqbye]

Ouch.

Logan's sharpest claws aren't the ones in his arms apparently...

[mrstatham]

Finally, someone's called Scott out on being a complete jackass and lurching closer and closer to Magneto's ideal. And it's perfect that it's Logan, a man who was exploited, used, experimented on, tortured and brainwashed and all manner of inhumane things because of what he was, telling him how it is.

I just can't help how much I utterly disagree with Scott. How can he justify throwing kids on the frontlines to defend the species when they're the hope for the future? Especially against something that they likely can't win against thanks to the enhancements the Sentinel has for this story?

On another note, I love that once we reach a particular distance in terms of how close we are to Logan, we can see pupils in his eye pieces.

[halloweenjack]

Magneto? Hell, how about Charles Xavier, the guy who faked his own death (back in the original X-Men run) because he wanted to concentrate on an alien invasion and didn't want those damn kids bugging him and, besides, they should be all grown up anyway? And who was basically Scott's adoptive dad? "I'm gonna be like you dad
You know I'm gonna be like you"

Giant Turd vs Douche Sandwich

[flint_marko]

Just kill each other.

[detective_deathman08]

I can see scott's point and i'm surprised wolverine cant. Cyclops has been fighting in the war of mutant persecution against human and mutants since he was a young teenager. Hell he was a child soldier, wolverine is older and knows what its like to fight at a young age.

[mrstatham]

So how does that justify Scott's position when he knows everything Wolverine's been through as a mutant, and he wants to use children as soldiers? If anything, Scott's own experiences should thoroughly put him off using the kids to fight something they're not certain they can win against, especially when the fate of their species is still up in the air.

[valtyr]

Well, they actually seem to have legitimate points on both sides, and those points are being reflected reasonably well in the narrative. Hope they keep it up.

[shanejayell]

Not bad. I'm kind of disappointed that the split hasn't been more generational, tho. I mean, back when Cannonball was leading X-Force he really chaffed under Xavier's black and white attitude. Instead the kids are lining up behind Scott, which seems... odd.

[icon_uk]

Sam appears to be being overlooked in amongst all this, as he tends to be, which annoys the hell out of me.

[tsunamiwombat]

"I never imagined you of all people could be so niave logan"...??

Scott as a villain, calling it now.

[icon_uk]

If his points were indefensible I might agree, but I really don't think they are, he makes some very valid points here (as does Logan).

[nyadnar17]

This is amazing. This is what Civil War should have been.

Two sides, both with valid yet irreconcilable points smashing to a head. Logan's reasoning is perfect, Scott's sense of betrayal that(in his mind) his must trusted lieutenant has just unilaterally thrown all of mutant kind to the wind and shattered a dream Scott has sacrificed so much for, and the sore point of Jean Grey all rolled into one.

I am loving this.

P.S.
I personally agree with Cyclops on this one even though I understand where Wolverine is coming from completely. Man, even Idie being the last of the 5 lights to leave is perfect.

[eyz]

Yeah, it does seem like a more development and interesting Civil War (or at least the reasons for a "Civil War")
And still more in-character than the way CW presented both sides of its conflict.

[silverzeo]

DId Scott just brough Jean up as a cheap shot like how Olie pushed Hal in that political book?

[nyadnar17]

I think it was a cheap shot, but I also think Scott was really hurt by what Logan did and wanted to hurt him back.

[deepspaceartist]

Considering the X-men started as a team of kids the same age or younger than the ones he's trying to stop from fighting now, I can see why Scott isn't buying to Logan's ideals. Scott probably has a far better idea of what those teesn are thinking and feeling right now than Logan ever could, since he and four of the closest people in the world to him went through it themselves. Especially since the kids decide to stay and fight with Scott.

And honestly? Any superhero writer worth their salt would have followed that speech of Scott's up with a no fatality win for the X-men. It's the perfect spot for a turnaround.

Agreed..

[steverodgers5]

There's a lovely moment of foreshadowing at the start of the issue where Scott casts a brief glance at an old photo on the wall he walks past, of the original X-Men, back when they were just teenage kids, fighting the good fight.

A lesser writer would have ramned the point home with some superfluous dialogue. But in this instance it's kept as a brief silent momentary glance, with just enough of a pause that it sicks in your mind for when Cyclops and Wolverine have their fall out. It tells you everything you have to know about why Cyclops is believing his stance, without having to spell it out to the reader.

Great work!

[proteus_lives]

Ouch. Cold, Scotty. Very cold.

Bad Logan.

[oddpuppets]

Okay, though everything's well-presented, I just can't agree with Logan.

First of all, his plan is downright stupid. If a Sentinel can survive Scott's optic blast at the highest possible level...what is 2000 pounds of plastic explosives going to do? Wikipedia states that Scott's optic blast is concussive, so the effect of plastic explosives and optic blast are largely similar. (Yes, concussive is not explosive, but I'm doubting that the explosion is what Logan is counting on to incapacitate the Sentinel).

Second, if anyone has ANY idea of what it's like to lead children during wartime, and do so successfully, it's Scott. Not Logan, Scott. And Scott has regularly pulled victories out of overpowering defeat. If there's one person you could count on to lead kids who are out of their league to victory, it's Scott Summers.

As for those who agree with Logan's "Retreat, Regroup, Rearm" mentality, I'd argue that by Marvel timeline, the older Mutants and some of the younger generation have seen far too many Mutant catastrophes, and at least one mutant homeland destroyed, in far too short a time, to be comfortable with having one more home destroyed. Like Israel, there's something intoxicating for a people to have a home. In essence, I see this moment as the Utopia Island's Arab-Israeli War moment - and while there is plenty to argue about the establishing of Israel and its subsequent actions, it's clear that because Israelis stuck to their guns, their state survived.

Logan is advocating Diaspora. Scott wants a home.

P.S. thinking about it, it even fits for Logan to advocate Diaspora. He's effectively IMMORTAL. For him, waiting and hiding and surviving until the next great chance is habitual. Which is also why I think he's wrong. He can afford to look at it in this form because he cannot die. The effect of raising a new generation of mutants on the run and without a home is going to affect their psyches tremendously.

Re: Bad Logan.

[fenris_wolf0]

Exactly. I am surprised by the fact that no one before you seems to have noticed that Logan is effectively immortal and that this seriously invalidate the strength of his argument: he is not in a position to make this argument 'run and regroup', because he cannot really understand normal, non-immortal humans (ref Methos' philosophy, 'run and fight another day'. He is the oldest immortal for a reason: in order to survive this will always be an immortal's rational point of view).

Whereas Cyclops has been fighting for the mutant cause since he was a kid, not to mention has experienced personally a lot more discrimination for his power, which comes at a far higher price than Wolverine's. Let's face it, Wolverine's powers are have no downside that I can see and furthermore his mutation is not a visible one, ie he can "pass" as a non-mutant. Which is not really Cyclops' case or the case of other mutants, including the kids. Running and hiding would be fine (or easier/possible) for mutants who can "pass" like Wolverine, but not for not for mutants like Beast or Nightcrawler.

But most importantly, being able to die is what defines humanity, and therefore Logan's arguments can only be championed by someone else, anyone else (ie, someone who is not immortal and over 100 years old).

BTW, I also dislike as irrational artificial age lines being drawn: so what, asking a 16 year old to fight is unacceptable, but a 17 year old is fine? Or should we draw the line at 20? So 19.5 is wrong, 20 is OK is your birthday was yesterday?

This is like the topic of what should be the age of consent: having sex as 14.5 is statutory rape but 15.1 is totally fine? How about synchronizing the age at which it is legal to have sex with the age at which they can be asked to die for the defense of their country, would that work? It can often be useful to reframe hard questions to try to understand issues better, rather than just go with unthinking prejudices without context.

No the truth is that this is a matter is indeed a very difficult question on which people are likely to disagree, but I wish it was seen as a debatable issue, to be discussed in a civilized manner and to do so without just dumping on Cyclops' coldness and how endangering children is wrong whatever the context. Personally I think self-defense makes it acceptable, for instance.

[heckfire]

Impressive. I was totally writing this story and the X-relaunches off, but now...now, I am really curious.

[abriel]

Okay I haven't given a shit about the X-Verse for a very long time (except for X-Factor) but I'm loving this. I have been looking forward to someone giving Scott the smackdown he deserves because the guy's an asshole. He's always been an asshole. Just in the past decade he's become even more of an asshole.

Guy decides to segregate all the mutants left on an island? Adopting Magneto's ideals much?

Being willing to sacrifice children all in the name of "mutant survival"? That's just a dick move.


And his actions in Children's Crusade...being completely unwilling to listen to reason and generally being a dick.


And then the slap about Jean...that was just hitting below the belt.

Tell me why this douchebag is still so beloved by so many comic fans again?

[r0b666]

I have to say that the arguments on both sides are valid. I agree with the sentiment that it is like Civil War, if it was done right/well.

I guess the biggest problem I have is with Wolverine being against the children standing up for themselves. Yes, they shouldn't be put in some situations, but if you're a Mutant and you're gonna run every time a Sentinel shows up, well you'll be doing a lot of running.

Even though it seems like they want to portray Cyclops as a cold hearted dick he has a point. The original X-Men were just kids too, and if they run they will never stop running.

I can see and understand Wolverine not wanting to put kids in harms way but blowing up their home is an interesting way of "protecting" them.

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Especially since it seems like the kids are siding with Cyclops.

[stolisomancer]

He's not against them standing up for themselves. He's against Cyclops deliberately putting them into the line of fire when options are available.

[hivemindcomics]

BOOM!

Well done Wolverine!

I actually gasped very aloud to that.

Very good.