Suicide Squad #6: Harley's DCnU Origin

[aeka]

Just like before, Dr. Harleen Quinzel meets the Joker at Arkham for the first time:





And then, he does the one thing that makes her fall in love with him:





And then Harleen breaks down and cries upon seeing the severed pinky finger of the slain crime lord(?).

All in all, with a few differences (such as the apparent chemical bleaching of her skin), Harley's DCnU origin is more of the same.

Comments

[darkknightjrk]

So, it looks like in this case, Harley wasn't so much seduced to become his henchperson, but more to be his equal, his peer.

...

I think I can live with that.

[aeka]

Yeah. Personally I think establishing her as his equal works best than the "naive psychiatrist who got easily swayed into the role of henchgirl" origin. In my opinion it makes the Harley/Joker dynamic a bit more interesting.

I do still hope she still becomes BFFs with Poison Ivy in this new DCU.

[jlbarnett]

Ivy is willing to hang around with the Birds of Prey. Harley is voluntarily becoming an equal to the Joker. I don't think it's likely

[gerardotejada]

I love It, in the real origin she was a weak psychiatrist that messed with the big guns, kind of start a new game on "brutal mode"

In less than one page she figured out the whole Morrison's Arkaham Assylum, joker is not insane he is overload with sanity, like the Comedian on watchmen. SHE IS THAT GOOD.

Still the twisted romance with the joker is handled too poorly, Its supposed to be sweet like Shishio & Yumi on samurai x. Some one just have to email the manga to the writter, there you got a cool source material for Harley/Joker.

[sherkahn]

More of the same?

More of the DCnU poor writing standards and tearing down of great history that came before it?

[aeka]

I actually like this take on her origin a bit more than the original to be honest, since she gets established as more of the Joker's equal as opposed to being someone he merely seduced with his charm.

If anything I was far more bothered by the brusque violence, homophobic, and ableist remarks in this book than the slight revamping of Harley's origin.

[golden_orange]

Granted, I haven't read the whole thing, but based on these scans I'm not really seeing how this is an example of either, really.

[dancesontrains]

Yeah.

[mrstatham]

Oh please. What was that great about the old origin that isn't kept intact here? If anything, there's less physical and verbal abuse from the Joker, which was always one of my sore points when it came to people perceiving him and Harley as an OTP.

[sherkahn]

Oh please. What was that great about the old origin that isn't kept intact here? If anything, there's less physical and verbal abuse from the Joker, which was always one of my sore points when it came to people perceiving him and Harley as an OTP.

1. Joker never treats anyone like an equal. It's all a con if he did. The closest person whom he has a love/hate with is Bruce (next exception being Luthor). So people saying that he's got respect for Harley, no, I don't see it. All he did was find the right buttons to press to further his agendas on just another stooge.

2. DCAU Harley started off as just a mere stooge/mob-gal working out of love for "Mr. J". Quinn grew as a character and as a self-empowered woman far from the shadow of one of the icons of villainy, and that really set her apart from her contemporaries, especially making it through the "extreme" 90's with class and sass to spare.

3. For all of Harley's smarts, it was always her big heart that overrode her common sense, and that were led her to bumps and bruises (real and emotional). This character... the way I read her I get none of that passion or zest for life.

The one on these pages is an ice princess through and through, with clown make up and colorful hair. Give me back my real Harley.

[gerardotejada]

Oh please! Harley started as a Batman Animated series character, she was a dumb blonde girl who fell in love with the wrong guy, on Gotham City Sirens she wasnt even so smart.

This "upgrade" as beign an "equal" to the joker is the bigger empowerment she has done, lets her outsmart Joker and then you have a great character.

I liked Harley, she was a sunshine and really sweet, a fun character, more a girl than a woman, she was really great but she never kicked ass as Catwoman or Poison Ivy, her top in popularity was due to the fact she was besties with Poison Ivy, the faboulous duo, but not a stand alone.

I really love the old Harley, and yes she was different, but you give her too much credit.

[gerardotejada]

You know, I just sounded mean. What I tried to say was that Harley was never an icon of villainy, she was sweet but a little twisted, a fun character. She was shiny and reformed, ready to take her life back on track and morally ambiguous.

This Harley is full Villain, she is not an Ice Princess, she is a strong and profesional psychiatrist who dont allow no one to look down on her.

If thats not empowerment...

[filthysize]

Hm.

I understand the virtue of making her his equal. After nearly 20 years, Harley's mutated into her own beast and is a beloved character worthy of her own respect. So yes, after this long since her debut, I can live with this tweak.

That said, I don't find one better than the other, because I've always understood it that the entire point of her creation in TAS is a sort of twistedly innocent take on domestic abuse, where the poetic romance cliche of "no one can love this hideous monster... except her!" is taken to its extreme perversity and shown as the abusive relationship that it is. It's at the expense of her self-worth, but it's supposed to be, to show how blinding love can be. More that than it is about her naivete, I think.

[darkknightjrk]

I think it should be pointed out that even in TAS, Harley had some bit of independence to her, even when concerning Joker. Outside of her relationship with Ivy, "Harlenquinade" and "Joker's Millions" comes to mind.

[biod]

I like the new origin, but when did they replace the Joker with Hannibal Lector?

[auggie18]

'bout ten years ago or so?

[freezer]

Yep. About the time they turned him into "Evil!Wolverine, Omnipresent God of Random Murder.

[gerardotejada]

Ten years? How about since Morrison's Arkaham Assylum, with my respects to Mr.Moore but Morrison's Joker is the best Joker

[big_daddy_d]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVlkZVAw8Gc

[tauruschick12]

I love this, actually. The art is pretty ace, too.

[charlieijoker]

This in no way makes Harley Joker's equal. He's messing with her head, per usual. He also took her victory away from her (over her father's killer).

[fifthie]

It's so much more empowerful for the Joker to talk Harley evil than for her to make an active (crazy) choice about what she believes.

[charlieijoker]

Actually no, it was a way to crush her like I said. It was the only thing she had. It was her deep motivating factor. He ripped that away leaving her empty and her drive meaningless.

[fifthie]

To clarify: I was using "empowerful" as a term of criticism of the writing, to indicate my agreement with you.

[jlbarnett]

I thought it was a typo, I don't think I've heard the term before.

[jlbarnett]

I find evil to be massively weaker than crazy.

[fifthie]

I agree!

[darkknightjrk]

Perhaps "equal" might not be the most accurate term, but the way he's talking to her does feel different. In Mad Love, he was basically making himself appear sympathetic so that Harley would fall in love with him; here, it looks more like he's trying to convince her that his way of looking at things is best. In Mad Love, he was conning her to be with him, but here he's inviting her.

[charlieijoker]

You're looking at it through the same "love goggles" as Harley Quinn. It is most definite in the BTAS origin, she had erotomania, and he was just telling his stories to amuse himself, which it is later confirmed that he tells those stories a lot. Hence Batman's words to Harleen. It had nothing to do with wanting to seduce her. Joker is Joker, he will amuse himself, and she took this out of context as some sign of affection. Here he is telling her she has no power. He is giving a display of power, and crushing her completely. It isn't an invite, it is a blatant taunt. "I have the power, and you can't have any of it." Hence. he took away her victory her only driving force.

[gerardotejada]

Mmm... Maybe you are right, about messing with her head. But about taking her victory away from her.. She wasnt going to take revenge, not now not ever, not like that.

Joker could have her confront her father murderer and "help" her to take the desition of killing him (Joker's present beign the facte he presented her the oportunity) But that would have taken too much pages.

[charlieijoker]

Confronting and defeating her father's killer somehow was her ultimate goal, it was the one thing she wanted but couldn't have that he was talking about. It's what was giving her fuel to become a psychiatrist and behave this way. Joker was going to be her step to this final victory. Hence, using him to defeat and understand the criminal psyche and then move on to final resolution with her father's killer. It's what got her there. When he took away what she was working towards, he crushed her. She realized she could not attain her power back and become like him, because he already took away the one thing that would give her that. All those years wasted.

As far as suddenly becoming some magical fairy godmother to assist and do what ever one wants, because you throw some caustic words at him. No. That does not sound like the Joker. He is striking her for that. He always has an ulterior motive. He is vicious. This is revenge.

[fifthie]

Oh hey, it's the DCAU, except joyless, trite and dour.

[flint_marko]

you can't post images from new issues outside the cut

[aeka]

- No one user can post more than 4 pages from any recent comic. Once the comic is no longer defined as recent, more pages may be posted.

- LJ-cuts are required for any post which contains more than one image. In addition, any spoilers or nsfw content must be behind your lj-cut. You may have one preview image no larger than 400 x 300 pixels provided that it has no spoilers or nsfw content.

I know the rules of the comm and no where in there does it say I can't post an image from a recent issue as a preview, provided it doesn't exceed the 300-400 pixel limit, doesn't contain any spoilers, and isn't nsfw.

My preview image is simply just that and unless you feel the image is too large or contains any spoilers, I'm not breaking any rules.

[flint_marko]

"You may use one preview image, maximum size 400x300 pixels, outside of the cut; it must be work-safe and it cannot contain spoilers. If it's from a recent comic, it is not allowed outside of a cut, no matter how spoilery it isn't."

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1844.html

[aeka]

That post is from NOV. 15TH, 2009, and I snagged my info straight from the comm's profile page.

So unless the 2009 post is supposed to be the updated version of the rules and the profile page was simply not updated, I assume the version appearing on the profile page is the more up-to-date version.

Nevertheless, I will discuss the matter with the rest of the mods.

[flint_marko]

That post is linked on the comm's profile under "Posting rules."

[greenmask]

Just talking this over on the mod comm - as aeka points out there's some discrepancy with what we've got on the user info as opposed to what's linked - we'll be fixing that. Thanks for keeping an eye on things! It's appreciated. :]

[icon_uk]

Hmmmm... torn on this.

Basically Harley was created in BTAS to be someone to tell the Jokes so the Joker could be busy being more evil. She's supposed to contrast with him, a bit ditzy, and in a weird and very warped abusive relationship. A bit of whimsy amidst the mayhem, whilst being competent, but not UBERcompetent. on her own.

Suggesting she's the Joker's equal in smarts, whilst good for her as a solo character, ruins IMHO the balance between them. And if she goes into the relationship with both eyes open and a shrewd mind, then there's no whimsy left as any ditziness will be too obviously a blind.

[fifthie]

In fairness BTAS basically outright stated that Harl was equal to / greater than in terms of brainsmarts (that one episode with the piranhas).

It just did it in a way that still felt compatible with the core of the character.

[fifthie]

Admittedly, this Harley is a separate, newly created character.

Just, a much... less-good one, than that other one.

[icon_uk]

Not even then really, it was never her plan, it was an abandoned Joker plan she stole and adapted, though as the Joker pointed out (if perhaps more out of jealousy) she had to EXPLAIN the modified joke, and that kills a joke.

[shadowpsykie]

batman did say she came the closest... i have to say harley show JUST how smart and scary she could be. she actually convinced batman. and yeah he was messing with the joker, but i htink he meant it when he said those things about her

[lego_joker]

Though, I'm 99.9% sure that Batman just gave that speech to piss off the Joker and goad him into making a mistake. I sincerely doubt that the pirhana scene was actually the biggest jam that Batman had ever been in in his career.

[shadowpsykie]

wow.... i can get behind this and i never thought i would say this... but it may even be better than the Dini version... maybe......

[benuben]

SO, THE SHOCKING NEW ORIGIN OF HARLEY QUINN IS..... exactly as I though it was the thole time. Mad love was never in canon and Harley Quinn one shot never covered up her interactions with Joker, so I just assumed it went down kind of like this. I always though Harley was deep down in her always like she is now and Joker just simply opened the door.

I really expected they would do something shocking and controversial. Not saying I wanted them to do something like that, but its just... suprising. Like, if they get rid of that horrible new outfit, I think Harley is pretty much exactly the same character she was.

If there is anything that annoys me about this, is that I want Harley and Joker together again (And i doubt thats what writer intended for readers to want). Seriously, I am tired of her being solo. I dont get why writers feel that the need to separate them. Because they want to tell stories with them not working together? Well, its not like Batman always does everything with Robin. With them being together, DC can please both audiences.

[eyz]

At least, that's one thing they mostly kept intact.

Well, the entire Bat-Franchise and GL's didn't seem much affected by the whole reboot-thingie anyway.