Villains Being Awesome: Harvey Dent calls Two-Face to the Stand

[cyberghostface]

From No Man's Land, Detective Comics #739. Two-Face has put Gordon under trial.














 

Comments

[btravage]

Oh wow he's wearing the same suit as that garish action figure

[kerithwyn]

Love, love, love this scene. And Renee! Miss her.

[leoboiko]

Two-face is such a simple, crystal-clear concept. It's amazing how often writers get him wrong. This right here is exactly what he should be. Great story, thanks for posting!

[crimsonmoonmist]

By god, this is wonderful.

[insolent_one]

This is a great scene. On the one hand, it's downright hilarious to see a man have a legal battle with himself, but it's also rather profound in how it showcases the struggle Harvey Dent endures while plaqued by his other side.

I am wondering though whether Harvey actually had a verbal debate with Two-Face, or whether it was more a mental battle in his own mind. It's great the way the debate is summarized in that one page, but I am wondering just how the discussion itself would have looked

[starwolf_oakley]

I was wondering "mental vs, verbal" myself, since I think that was brought up once before on this board. Are Harvey and Two-Face talking out loud to each other, or is it just internal with Gordon and Montoya watching as Two-Face doesn't say anything?

[lego_joker]

In the novelization, Greg Rucka (who also wrote the comic version here) had it be mostly internal, with Harvey's good and bad sides muttering to one another in a low voice. Montoya and Gordon hear about every fourth or fifth word.

[majingojira]

Greg Rucka also wrote the novelizataion? I'm gonna have to track it down. I've slowly come to realize over the last few months just how many stories I love were written by the guy.

[sadoeuphemist]

It's bugging me way more than it should that she handcuffs his hands in front of him, but in the next panel they're behind his back.

[dustbunny105]

Oh, good, it wasn't just me.

[an_idol_mind]

Between panels she realized her mistake, undid the handcuffs, and recuffed him.

[junipepper]

In fact he just holds his hands out in front for her to cuff; we don't see the cuffs go on. She could have turned him around and... yeah, ok, it just doesn't work.

[sadoeuphemist]

Also I don't get this scene from a Two-Face character standpoint. If his "good side" is able to argue down his "bad side" with a well-reasoned argument about voided contracts, then why is he a bad guy? I thought Two-Face no longer believes in well-reasoned arguments or legalities, he believes in blind heartless chance. It doesn't really matter if Jim Gordon did anything wrong or not, all those men still died and Montoya still got kidnapped. Too bad, Jim, sucks to be you I guess.

[walkingthroughforest]

Because Jim asked Harvey to represent him. So Harvey Dent, DA argued against the prosecution, which was Two Face. It just goes to show how shattered Harvey's psyche is.

[sadoeuphemist]

I'm saying why doesn't "Harvey Dent" just 'win' all the time and then "Two-Face" never does anything. I mean, when someone says the contract was under duress and therefore void, why would Two-Face ever give a shit about that?

[cyberghostface]

I'm saying why doesn't "Harvey Dent" just 'win' all the time and then "Two-Face" never does anything.

It depends on how the coin falls. Although it varies with whoever is writing him.

[sadoeuphemist]

Yeah but he doesn't use the coin here to resolve the argument. He just has an internal argument with himself. I thought the idea was if he did that he'd be in perpetual stalemate - 'Harvey' says, This is the law! and 'Two-Face' says, Fuck the law! There's no way either can convince the other. That's why the coin is necessary.

[btravage]

He does use the coin to make the decision to do the right thing, which in this case is to play the role of a lawyer

[sadoeuphemist]

Well no, it is not the right thing to do to debate in your head whether a guy deserves to die. The right thing to do is to outright say, 'of course he doesn't deserve to die, that's not even a question.'

Here is my deal. I thought Two-Face's thought processes went like this:
Two-Face is conflicted -> he flips the coin to see what he will do

But the trial goes like this:
Two-Face wants to do something bad -> he flips the coin to see if he will be conflicted about it -> once he is conflicted his good side wins out

If his good side can overwhelmingly overcome his bad side like that, why is he a bad guy to begin with?

[funbox]

Harvey was also getting positive influence by Renee, but the main point to Harvey is that there is an ever present battle in himself to be either the shining white night he once was or do what he would to the world that has shown him that it is nothing but chance and that bad things can happen to the best and the best can happen to the worst. To deal with this inner struggle, he uses a coin to decide because he, at his shattered core, believes that life is nothing but chance, and it helps him not focus on the struggle that would otherwise leave him broken. Tl;dr, a coping mechanism lead by a philosophy that is at varying levels of conviction depending on the writer.

[bj_l]

How much No Mans Land, or the fallout of No Mans Land was this strong? Because if this is an indicator of the standard quality, I might have to look into it.

[cyberghostface]

Been a while since I read the trades but overall I thought it was a good story.

[zechs80]

The story had a few trips, but it was the one that introduced Harley Quinn and Cassandra Cain into the Batman Universe. Even Mercy Graves too. There's always something about it to enjoy.

[btravage]

and greenskined Poison Ivy

[lego_joker]

Sadly, its Joker (in my opinion, anyways...) sucked donkey balls.

Fortunately, it makes up for that with just about every other Bat-villain. Harvey - as shown here. Ivy. Even the Penguin.

[zechs80]

Oh there are parts of the Joker involvement in No Man's Land is fun. Like in Azrael where he's built the perfect death trap to ensnare Batman.. whose M.I.A. Or the Harley Quinn one-shot and following two-issue arc. I loved both of those. The stuff that came after yeah that was some dark Joker stuff. .

[lego_joker]

Okay, yeah, let me amend that: all the Joker parts written by Greg Rucka suck donkey balls.

Those parts you mention were written by Denny O'Neil, Paul Dini, and Bronwyn Carlton. Two of those guys are legendary Joker writers, and the third actually didn't do too bad, either.

I'll see if I can post some stuff from 'em this weekend.

[superfangirl1]

Very awesome and wonderful scans. :)

[junipepper]

That's a particularly gruesome looking Two-Face...

Sigh. I miss Renee.