Batman/Superman: World's Finest #25

[cyberghostface]

 

Comments

[shakalooloo]

Perfection.

[superfangirl1]

I like how later in the issue Lex saw the Joker deepest darkest desires. Which he gets creepily, disturb, horrified
by it. When fight over an artifact that grant you wish of your
desire.

Lex couldn’t believe that he gotten outsmarted by Joker.

[beyondthefringe]

Lex's problem is that he is the smartest man in the room and approaches everyone else from that standpoint of rational intelligence, assuming they're less intelligent than he is. And he also assumes they're just as flawed and selfish as he is, because that's what his rational mind requires.

The Joker is the craziest person in any given situation, -and- he's scarily smart, -and- he doesn't think in linear, logical, or practical patterns.

That's why anyone ever hoping to take on the Joker rationally will always fall prey to the chaos, unpredictability, and sheer insanity of the Joker's mindset. Even--or especially-Lex. (Remember the sad fate of Alexander Luthor, who didn't let the Joker "play" during Infinite Crisis...)

Batman succeeds because he's trained himself to understand the Joker's madness, and to pivot as needed when things don't go as expected (and to be prepared for any eventuality.)

(Other heroes succeed against the Joker because he's still just a relatively human person and rarely has counters for magic rings, magic ropes, or superhuman speed and strength unless he came prepared ahead of time...)

But this is why Lex, plain and simple, fucked up in this encounter. But he'll learn from it for the future.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

So if that establishes Joker as chaotic evil, and Batman as lawful good (though that's been stretched and tested by some in certain mediums, but let's just say the idealized version, more like BTAS), then who would serve as a potentially chaotic good foil for Joker? Someone to meet him where he lives while still standing across from him?

[beyondthefringe]

An excellent question.

The problem is that most of the insane or otherwise unhinged good guys (Heckler, Creeper, Ambush Bug) are more "chaotic" than good, and might even straddle good/neutral territory. Lobo is pure chaos with a specific code of honor, but could he handle Joker? Nah, he's violence without subtlety.

Harley Quinn is perhaps the most obvious choice, but even she falls into chaotic neutral territory more often than not. And she has a lot of baggage tied up with the Joker, which might not make her the best to stand against him.

Honestly, with a question like that, I'd rule out a lot of characters either for being too sane/normal/regulated/etc to properly handle the Joker's particular brand of insanity. I mean, even trying to approach his mindset seems like it would really a lot. Superman? Wonder Woman? Barry? Hal? All too straight-forward. They could -fight- the Joker but they're not playing on his level.


I feel like you almost by necessity need to go back to the Bat-Family... of all DC's pantheon, they're the ones trained to fight insane villains by default, covering everything from compulsive riddles to serial killers. And if Bruce stands as lawful good (with how -strongly- he adheres to his very personal, specific rules) then we must consider his sidekicks.

Dick and Tim both take after their mentor a little too much at times.
Damien? With his upbringing and certain tendencies, I wonder if he might fit lawful neutral or neutral good--he's willing to cross a lot of lines.
Barbara's a contender, but while she's -smart- enough to understand the Joker, she's still too -good- at heart.
but in the end, it's Jason who I think has the best chance of basically being the anti-Joker. I think he embodies chaotic good more often than not, but even when he strays, his heart is in the right place, but to hell with any rule he doesn't respect.

If you pull in the Marvel universe... it's Deadpool. Naturally. :)

[cainofdreaming]

Impulse would drive him even nuttier.

[mastermahan]

Sometimes Waid writes Lex and Joker as having an odd friendship and mutual understanding and it enjoy that.

This is not one of those stories. This is a story of Lex severely underestimating the Joker, and it works.

[zachbeacon]

Lex gave the Joker access to a straight razor.

I'm starting to think the billionaire ruling class aren't that smart.

[shakalooloo]

I'm assuming the Joker had that... secreted about his person just waiting for a funny moment to use it.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

That somehow tracks better.

[zylly]

You keep telling yourself that, Lex. We all know it’s only -you- that feels small because of Superman. And your ego just can’t handle that.

[cainofdreaming]

If a simple explosive collar would be enough then Amanda Waller would have already drafted Joker.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

I could see him digging the bomb out, though. The collar might be trickier.

[shakalooloo]

He does... deal with it in the issue.

[cainofdreaming]

He makes peoples lives richer. Metaphorically, as they won't actually live through the enrichment.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

How long ago was this? This doesn't feel like the Joker(s) we've been getting lately.

[cyberghostface]

First time they worked together.

[blues32]

For shame, Joker. Stealing Oswald's umbrella look.

[shakalooloo]

In the issue, he mentions that he did trade for it fairly.

[cainofdreaming]

He left a case of Joker toxin set to explode in the Iceberg Lounge?

[tcampbell1000]

The Joker stories I like best are the ones that capture the full range of the character. This one definitely qualifies.