shakalooloo: (Atom)
[personal profile] shakalooloo posting in [community profile] scans_daily
"Perhaps the most compelling character has been the Wall, Amanda Waller. There was no one really like her before in comics; I don't think there's been anyone to match her since. She's a woman, she's black, she has no super-powers, and she is as tough and indomitable as they come. She is also flawed herself. We get more discussion in the letters about Amanda than anything else in this book. Some of you absolutely loathe her. That's all to the good. We never claimed she was a hero, or a role model, or without flaws. Compelling - that she is. If Kim and I have made a contribution to the DC Universe, it's probably Amanda. Watch. She won't stay quiet long. Other people will want to use her. Amanda may be back before the Squad is."
- John Ostrander, circa 1992

I had thought about doing a carefully curated selection of scenes of Amanda to contrast with her current actions in Absolute Power. That seemed like a lot of work, so here's just some of my favourites after a quick flick through the OG Suicide Squad TPBs. This is the woman that will go on to forge an alliance with a Brainiac and an evil Batman robot to rob all super-heroes of their powers, remember...

























Date: 2024-07-22 05:30 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Seiga Kaku from Touhou 13, shadowed. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
Waller as she is today is an entirely fair reflection of modern cynical perception of the American government.

(Which itself, of course, is not at all wholly modern - " You do remember social programs, don't you, Mr. President? " here, if nothing else.)

Date: 2024-07-22 05:41 pm (UTC)
huntleyhaverstock: Joel McCrea as Johnny Jones, aka "Huntley Haverstock," in Alfred Hitchcock's FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT (Default)
From: [personal profile] huntleyhaverstock
Surprisingly accurate portrayal of Ronald Reagan. "Ethics? Morals? What are those? I just want to do what I want to do."

Date: 2024-07-22 08:04 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mazway_75
The Bush one is off because earlier in Janus Directive, he was shown as tougher and even demoting Waller for her antics on "you play the lone wolf too often." Now he's sounding like Dana Carvey's SNL impression.

Date: 2024-07-22 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mazway_75
I miss this Waller, tough but not the borderline sociopath of today.

Love when someone mocks her on "The Squad is expendable, you made them that way" and she punches him with "They are when I say they are on missions that mean a damn."

There's also her tendency to play "lone wolf" hands and keep things to herself that backfires. Like not telling Flagg she was working to defuse a blackmail attempt to out the Squad and he goes to kill the guys behind it which just ends up exposing them to the public after all.

Also notable how readers complained no way Batman would be dumb enough to leave his real prints behind, Ostrander hemming and hawing before going "yeah, I screwed that up."
Edited Date: 2024-07-22 08:05 pm (UTC)

Date: 2024-07-23 03:00 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Amanda Waller and Batman looking angry, text: Up Against the Wall (Waller vs Batman)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
I thought so at the time (about the fingerprints), but made my own theory that Batman had his Matches Malone prints in place and it was expedient for Waller to think that she had his prints (and also he wasn't thrilled about her even having Matches' prints!)

Date: 2024-07-23 04:09 am (UTC)
full_metal_ox: A gold Chinese Metal Ox zodiac charm. (Default)
From: [personal profile] full_metal_ox
Bravissima! Too bad No-Prizes were a Marvel custom.

Date: 2024-07-22 08:49 pm (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
For as much as I hate the modern (going back too many years for my liking now) depiction of Amanda Waller, and still believe the original Ostrander depiction is the one true way to handle her...

These scans indeed show the seeds for her current, more ruthless, more despicable self. Waller's always been angry, and manipulative, and controlling, and secretive. She's always had a dark side. She's knowingly sent people out to die while struggling with the guilt of their deaths, always justifying it for a greater good while condemning waste. She's a master planner who gets her hands dirty and plays things close to her chest.

But in the beginning, she -did- surround herself with checks and balances to try and rein her in. People who would say no, who'd ask the hard questions, who'd challenge her on issues of faith, morality, and practicality. And one by one, she -lost- those checks and balances and drifted further into dark territory.

And over the years, she rarely reestablished that sort of balance in her life. Not in the Suicide Squad, not in Checkmate... and then you had the New 52 which, as a reboot, wasn't the Waller we knew.

Look at her now: Sarge Steel? Peacemaker? These are not people who will challenge her or keep her honest. She doesn't -have- anyone capable of holding her back, and she's at the point where she doesn't -want- them. Dreamer? Oliver Queen? They're heroes but she's not gonna listen to them; she doesn't respect, fear, or otherwise consider them as more than weapons.

I hate this depiction of Waller, and I want her to be revealed as a multiversal analog, but dammit, I can see where we got here on a character level. She's the ultimate control freak, and once she stopped giving a shit about what anyone else said, stopped caring about her people as -people- and started focusing on the end game, that's how we get to Absolute Power. This is the Waller who doesn't have checks and balances.

Date: 2024-07-22 10:17 pm (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
Yup. Steel's had a long road from his initial hardboiled private eye turned spy depiction to his all-purpose government flunky role as head/member of various organizations (CBI, Metahuman Affairs, Checkmate...)

Probably because he was obscure even in the '80s as a Charlton import, it's been easy for him to slip under the radar and be twisted into his current setup. A shame, that.

Maybe we can blame it all on Mister Mind hiding inside his hand again.

Date: 2024-07-24 06:19 pm (UTC)
deh_tommy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
Not gonna lie, I didn’t take too kindly to everybody trying to gaslight me that Sarge Steel was always written the way he is in Tom King’d Wonder Woman, so I’m glad to actually get some validation here.

Date: 2024-07-23 02:59 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Amanda Waller and Batman looking angry, text: Up Against the Wall (Waller vs Batman)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Yes, she needs those checks and balances and she's got rid of them. I agree that I can see how she got here, but it's just not that interesting compared to someone who is willing to make those sacrifices but also feels it, and has larger goals in mind.

Date: 2024-07-22 10:23 pm (UTC)
superfangirl1: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superfangirl1
A preview of absolute power Origins #1 came out today. It seems Amanda Wallers backstory is more or less the same. According to her narrative

https://aiptcomics.com/2024/07/19/dc-preview-absolute-power-origins-1/

Wow. Steel looks completely different in early comics.

Date: 2024-07-23 03:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
I think the My Adventures with Superman Season 2 finale was an interesting wrinkle, if simplified for a younger audience. She'd crossed moral lines that were unacceptable, but when all the chips were down, she hadn't forgotten what she was fighting for. And she ended up back on the side of the angels...if only for one crucial hour. In stark contrast with Luthor, whose motives were never in service to anything higher than himself.

A Season-Three redemption arc for that Waller would be difficult--she ordered civilian deaths, she betrayed her only real friend--but not inconceivable.

Date: 2024-07-23 01:31 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (catwoman (sixties))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Even Batman was always wary of the Wall!

Date: 2024-07-23 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] agharta75
Because she's not afraid of _him_.

Date: 2024-07-24 07:54 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shadur
Afraid, no. Willing to confront him and do whatever it takes to win if that's what's necessary, absolutely.

But she also respects him enough to know that out-and-out conflict between the two of them will be disastrous for both of their missions regardless of who wins, and it's a door she'd very much like to remain closed.

Date: 2024-07-23 02:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] giraffesforever
I always appreciate when someone makes the effort to put together a retrospective on a character. Super helpful both for getting me up to speed on someone I didn't read at all as a kid and for showing where the modern character comes from. Well done and thanks!

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