Thor vs. Dracula

[trueredorion.insanejournal.com]

Just under the wire for Halloween (my time), here's Thor vs. Dracula. 6 pages from Thor #332 and 7 from Thor #333.

During the early 80's Dracula seemed to just randomly pop up and fight every hero he could. He fought the Silver Surfer, Howard the Duck, the Defenders, the X-Men (twice) and others during this time period. Thor jumped on the bandwagon since the book was going through a down period between the end of Roy Thomas' run and the beginning of Simonson's.

Thor slays some of Dracula's victims who have arisen as vampires:








While this is going on Dracula has become obsessed with Sif and while Thor is doing this he feeds on her while she's asleep at the end of the issue. The next issue reveals Sif is now under Dracula's control and has developed amnesia. Her blood has also super-charged Dracula's powers. Thor discovers this when he goes to visit Dr. Strange and goes to confront them at the Opera.

The fight:



Dracula flees through a hole in the roof and Thor follows.




Seriously who the hell tries to attack somebody who can fight evenly with the Hulk with rats?




Sif is back to normal and Dracula is killed by Dr. Strange along with every other vampire in his next appearance.

Comments

[psychop_rex.insanejournal.com]

I find it eminently satisfying for a comic to acknowledge that, yes, other types of religious symbols CAN affect vampires in the exact same way a crucifix does - even ancient, pagan ones. Thor should take up a side-job as a vampire slayer - the merest love-tap from his hammer would likely be enough to explode a vampire into bloody gobbets.
Also 'Sweet Justice!' is a kick-ass expression.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

I think the comics were amongst the first of to use the "other religious symbols" bit, certainly Kitty's Star of David worked for her.

I wondered whether a rainstorm summoned by Thor would count as holy water.

[fredneil.livejournal.com (from insanejournal.com)]

A Star of David isn't really a religious symbol, though. It's more a symbol of identification with the Jewish people, but it has no religious significance.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

Not directly perhaps, but I'd say it has quite a lot of religious significance, since Judaism is recognised as both a religious and ethnic identity, and the Star of David is so closely linked to Judaism.

[fredneil.livejournal.com (from insanejournal.com)]

But that just means people who aren't Jews would give it religious significance. Few, if any, Jews would think of a Star of David as something that has religious meaning the way a Christian would think of a crucifix. A vampire being repulsed by it would be like a vampire being repulsed by a patriotic person waving a flag.

It's more likely that a Jewish person would be carrying around a Star of David than anything that did have religious significance, but it might have made a good scene if the write had put in the extra effort and worked in, say, Kitty ripping a mezuzah from a doorpost and throwing it at Dracula like a dagger. Actually, that's the only thing I can think of that would really be an equivalent to a crucifix.

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

Actually, the likes of Stephen King's vampires, and the Haemavores in Doctor Who's "Curse of Fenric" WOULD be repelled by that, since it's the belief that repels them, not the object. The Haemovores (vampires in all but name) are not repelled by a vicar whose faith is failing, but are by a committed Russsian soldier who hold a Red Star insignia)

And so it is for Kitty, the Star of David is IIRC a family heirloom, and is a symbol of her ethnic and religious identity, it defines who she is and where she comes from, that's all that is needed for faith, not necessarily a direct analogue to the Christian crucifix.

[psychop_rex.insanejournal.com]

Errm, probably not. For one thing, holy water is solely a Christian concept, as far as I know - there are certainly springs and lakes and so forth that pagans consider holy areas, but it's more the place itself than water taken from it - and for another, I'm pretty certain that holy water is really just regular ol' water that's had prayers said over it. Thor doesn't NEED to say prayers - he summons the weather patterns, not the rain. The rain is a handy byproduct, and I'm pretty certain it's just normal rain.

[petalsinthewind.insanejournal.com]

"acknowledge"?

[psychop_rex.insanejournal.com]

What I mean is, it seems that vampires are often shown showing vulnerability only to Christian symbols, which has always rankled me. If it's the power of belief that invests a symbol with power, that should include ANY symbol, up to and specifically including such holy weapons as Mjolnir, replicas of which used to be worn by vikings much in the same way that Christians wear crucifixes.

[petalsinthewind.insanejournal.com]

I don't think it is traditionally faith but the power of God/Jesus that is supposed to have warded off vampires.

[psychop_rex.insanejournal.com]

If you're looking at it from a strictly Christian perspective, yes - but first off, I'm not a Christian, so I don't look at it from a strictly Christian perspective, and second, this is set in the Marvel Universe, where numerous different pantheons of gods are shown to have an active part in Earthly affairs - you CAN'T look at it from a strictly Christian perspective in that context; it doesn't make sense, since the MU is obviously not a strictly Christian universe.
Anyway, vampires, in one form or another, appear all over the world, including in folkloric traditions that don't include Christianity at all, so putting them in a strictly Christian context makes little sense. Eastern Europe has given rise to the best-known variation of vampire, but it's far from the only one - and even that variety includes numerous details that hark back to pre-Christian traditions (garlic, the wooden stake, and running water are all clearly pre-Christian).

[petalsinthewind.insanejournal.com]

Yes.

And in settings with where "vampires are often shown showing vulnerability only to Christian symbols," it is not "the power of belief that invests a symbol with power," but the power of God.

Also, the folklore surrounding the manananggal, the ramanga, jiang shi, etc. obviously don't apply here: It's Dracula.

I am just saying that "faith" being what repels vampires is just a multicultural interpretation of the more traditional folklore.  It is traditionally God, which means only crosses/crucifixes warding vampires makes sense in those stories.  There isn't a more true interpretation to "acknowledge".

[psychop_rex.insanejournal.com]

Well, let's put it this way - it has been shown, elsewhere in Marvel continuity, that other religious symbols WILL repel a vampire, if believed in. It's nice to see they're acknowledging that, if nothing else. (Besides, I personally think that if vampures DO exist, and follow the traditional rules, then the 'faith not God' rule likely applies - but that's just me.)

[icon_uk.insanejournal.com]

Depends on what you mean by "traditionally", if you mean the Bram Stoker Dracula, then yes it was particularly the Christian symbology which warded him off, and Van Hesling makes a particular note that he has special dispensation from the Vatican to carry consecrated Communion wafers (Which is a tightly controlled privilege, granted to members of the clergy and Ministers of Commmunion).

If you mean other popular takes on the genre, like Salem's Lot, then it's the faith, not the symbol.