Is this what the Teen Titans were actually like?

[sistermagpie]

Two pages from Titans 23, where we learn that the Titans maybe should have been named "He-Man Roy-Haters Club."



The Titans, on the way to Roy's bedside, reminisce about the good old days when they were always yelling at Roy. Who was it who said that after Donna came home crying from her disasterous date with Roy the others all shook their heads and thought she was being a girl? No so! They reacted like this!





Yes, that machismo could definitely take some getting used to, Donna. No wonder you went with sensitive Roy.

And this dynamic here? Happens over and over:

Roy does something that's not so bad.

Wally pours scorn and contempt over his head--because Wally wants Donna for himself. He threatens Roy if he doesn't take stay away from Donna.

Dick casts judgement on Roy and reminds Roy he will be there to cast judgment in the future as well. Somehow it's even more prickish when he's wearing the scaly green shorts. Also he warns Roy not to hurt Donna.

Donna apologizes for and takes the blame for everybody else's behavior. If she'd been a better girlfriend, Roy wouldn't have taken heroin, etc.

Somehow I couldn't help but be reminded of this:

tags: title: titans, char: robin/nightwing/dick grayson, char: speedy/red arrow/roy harper, char: flash/kid flash/wally west, char: wonder girl/troia/donna troy, char: aqualad/tempest/garth, creator: eddie berganza,

Comments

[ashleyera.livejournal.com]

*facepalm*

[cuntfucius]

The fact that you made the "Atta" comparison makes this issue all better.

Okay, I can take that Waid retconned Wally and Dick into being best friends. That doesn't necessarily have to alienate Roy OR Donna. But what the hell? Dick and Wally were acting like judgmental pricks, and I guess I can get the judgment from Wally a bit with his old conservative attitude, but still...they were definitely being asses to Roy way too much. And I get that Wally had a crush on Donna all the way back from the first Titans series, but really? This is a bit much.

Paired up with the fact that Lilith told Donna that her future husband was going to die, violating her own psychic ethics, and that Roy plunging into heroin use was showcased right after Donna turned down his retroactively-retconned teenage marriage proposal, it definitely reeks of her taking the blame over and over again.

And then we have Roy's "She deserves better" line at rehab with Wally, and just.

The way it ended with "I found something to live for", him holding Lian ...was just kind of distasteful, too.

The banter between Wally and Donna was the only thing that made me smile a bit in this issue. And Dick and Donna being so tense.

But really, this was a heckload of retconning.

THE CURRENT TITANS DYNAMIC CAN SUCK, DC, BUT DON'T RUIN HOW THEY USED TO BE, TOO.

[sistermagpie]

Yes, the marriage thing was just...wtf?

Honestly, Dick almost felt like some sort of fascist. I mean, that sounds totally OTT, but it was like Dick was there to be some big thug who would come in and say that if you weren't in line you needed to be carted off or something.

I just have a hard time picturing Dick Grayson reacting to Roy's heroin addiction with a cold order to get himself in order or else Dick will do it for him. What the hell, Grayson?

[ashleyera.livejournal.com]

THE CURRENT TITANS DYNAMIC CAN SUCK, DC, BUT DON'T RUIN HOW THEY USED TO BE, TOO.

THIS.

[zemo]

So, we calling this still Bat-Dickery, or Dick-dickery? >_>

Mind you, one has to admit that Green Arrow and Speedy were probably the most easy going heroes of the time...right after Plastic Man.

[icon_uk]

Nowadays it would be Dick-Battery?

Yeah, not buying this at all. Dick being full of machismo? Since bloody when? Dick got mad at Roy when he started making moves on Kory, but that was more snippish.

[cuntfucius]

Also, Krul was supposed to write this issue, hence why the solicit talked about Roy's feverish dreams when the issue actually did not feature that at all, so I assume this one was rushed and shoehorned in.

Let's pretend that explains the wild OOCness and all of that. Donna would have never stayed on the team if the Titan boys really acted like that, so paternalistic, over her.

Then again, it could explain why she was socialized to think Terry was amazing.

[sistermagpie]

I was hoping this *was* Roy's fever dream!

[theanswer]

Wasn't this around the time Roy was a druggie?

[cuntfucius]

First TT run (series one), he wasn't a druggie until after he left the Titans for a while. The "a while" stayed because they didn't want any of them near him when he was going through his issues. In issue 53 of the first series (or was it 54?), he reunites with the team, and Donna mentions it's good to see him back and they allude to him having been in "trouble" recently but never specify the drug issue.

So a lot of this was before his drug use. Then they go into when he actually got into drugs. His stint in rehab helped him get government connections and then he fell in love with Cheshire and had Lian and was clean forevermore (except Titans secrets says no!!) the end!

[ian_karkull]

This might explain why I never could muster the strength to care about the Titans. Everyone is an utter dickhead and ridiculously melodramatic here. I particularily like the way they yell at Garth for, y'know.. trying to stop them from killing each other.

[cuntfucius]

To be fair, everyone is acting melodramatic and like a total dickhead that is involved or associated in any way with this entire Arrow event.

[stubbleupdate]

I didn't think that we needed to be reminded that Roy was a beefcake.

[cuntfucius]

also omg after this i am so totally done spamming this post (sorry D:) but I find it funny that they are all reminiscing on how shitty they were to Roy when there is like, blatant meanieheadness to Garth in their flashbacks and they kind of just are like "oh that sucks garth dies but he has a cool statue now, ANYWAY BACK TO THIS ARROW EVENT..."

[sweettart1823]

It's true. They're being -really- mean to Garth here. Sad... Poor Garth...

[thebigapricot]

The best ret-con would have been to have Speedy/Roy, when Dick is yelling at him, just grab Dick and kiss him.

[perletwo]

I have so got to find that panel of Harley saying something similar in Countdown and make a macro of it.... ;-P

[zemo]

Say, could someone explain to me why all the boys are so buff? I mean, seriously, never seen a teenage boy THAT buff in my life. You could let a coin fall on Wally's abs, and it'd be reflected right up and get stuck in the ceiling...

[sweettart1823]

Right? Especially since Wally should probably be like... super thin. At this time I don't think he would have had much time to work out enough to get muscles like that.

[cloud_wolf]

I'm trying to make this mesh with what I saw from those TT showcase collections (in which everyone is friends and cute) in the comic shops and it's giving me a headache. Guess I should be glad I'm not reading Titans.

[sweettart1823]

They Really seem to be playing up Roy/Donna and as someone who totally ships it. All of this, I'm still like "wtf is this?"

It seems OOC for pretty much all of them. I can understand Wally going after Roy and stuff because he was shown in one of the old TT issues being a jealous teenager and whatever. So I can see that. But Dick? Really? When has he ever acted like that?

That's not my teen titans...

Although that "You didn't see Roy like I did back then" "Naked.." Part made me laugh.

[rordulum]

Dick's never acted like that, that I've seen.

Seems to me he's always been fully aware that Donna's a big girl, and can look after herself. And The few times he's referenced her relationship with Roy, he gave off a distinct 'none of my business' vibe.

Still, I suppose they're going all out to build even more sympathy for Roy, which I don't really care for, as I've never liked the character at all.

Also, just how long are we going to have to sit through this nonsense before the guy actually wakes up, and then we get even more nonsense as he implodes over the ridiculously bad idea that was killing off his daughter.

[nezchan]

This is not my Titans. My Titans were written by MARV FREAKIN' WOLFMAN AND GEORGE PEREZ!!

Thou shalt not retcon away from something better than you're writing now. Seriously.

[kenn_el]

Holy Hack!, Bob Haney was better than this!

[sarno001]

Well, on the plus side, I'm going to be saving a few extra bucks every month.

[zordboy]

It's so sad that the only good thing about this whole exercise is Dick, Wally and Donna cruising around in the Batwing. I don't know, I think that's cool.

The rest of epic fail. The end.

[kingrockwell]

Come on guys, let's see how many times we can fit the phrase "bad news" on one page!
After his Teen Titans strip in Wednesday Comics, I knew it'd be a bad idea to put Berganza on a full issue here.

[foxhack]

I'm not even a Titans fan and even I know this is fucking wrong.

[gamerguy]

"How are you this strong?"
What, did Wally forget most Atlanteans can bench-press a small car at least? Bodies and muscles that can resist deep ocean pressures and all that.

That's about the only thing I like about this scene since apparently that was the only bit of history that the writers bothered to read.

[sistermagpie]

Me too. That moment stands out.

[perletwo]

....and once again my vote for Titans as Biggest Purchase regret is reaffirmed. Thanks, DC!

[roytoys]

The thing that bothers me the most. Donna calling Wally 'ass'. How out of character could that get? I mean seriously?

I just want to know what they are smoking in the DC offices because Holy Hannah! It's warped what little thought processing they had going from last year (and that's not saying much). Geesh!

Agree with the saving few bucks a month.

[tornadotwin.blogspot.com]

they were watching Mean Girls at the time.

[starpiper]

Well...at least...Garth is level-headed and sweet here, despite everyone apparently being an ass to him when they were kids...and then promptly forgetting about him dying once they get the statue set up...and, um, the art's very pretty, except for the one scene where Iris and Jai West show up, they just looked terrifying...and, uh...

...yeah. That's all I've got. Dammit, DC, why must you screw up the Titans' relatively happy and functional past? And what's with all the asshattery from Dick and Wally to Roy? Aren't Dick and Roy supposed to be best friends? Weren't the original five Teen Titans as big on thinking of each other as family as the big seven Teen Titans? Where on Earth is Berganza getting all of this?

::wanders off, baffled and in search of Titans vol.1 or Teen Titans Y1 to help make things better::

[levyrasputin]

well, you know, whenever someone calls a Titans fan 'stuck in the past', he should acknowledge that we have a damn good reason to be so. We are simply wishing for the characters we like to interact with each other in a way that makes sense. Even though..

Jai an Iris looks like daddy has just jumped into the room saying......" .. kids! Uncle Deathwing is coming for dinner and is gonna stay over a couple of days! Awesome, isn't it? :D"

... yeah, better days had their counterpart of worse days too, so we should not give up and hold on hope for a better future. Maybe. ° °

[levyrasputin]

Looking at the bright side of things, if this has to be the last Titan issue, at least it leaves you without regrets.
Wally, but mostly Dick, being such judgemental assholes kind of break my heart a little, even with the whole blatant OOCness. :/
And yes, we understood already that Roy's life has no longer a meaning and bla blah, no need to restate it a thousand times everytime he is mentioned.