sherkahn: (Rabid Raccoon)
[personal profile] sherkahn posting in [community profile] scans_daily
With the possible casting of Chris Evans as Captain America and as Siege event heads to a close, let us reflect on the gravitas that will be required of the Sentinel of Liberty and the last time Asgard took arms against U.S. forces in Avengers #63 (or #478, depending on what you follow).

Scene - the conclusion of the Standoff storyline, as he European country of Slovokia has come under attack, and people are praying to King Thor of Asgard for help. As their adopted deity, the Mighty Thor comes into battle with the full of Asgard at his back, with the other side using Stark technology and U.S. support. Which brings in Iron Man, in his custom made ThorBuster armor. Dr. Doom is playing both sides and triggers the fight between Odin powered Thor and Iron Man in his version of the Destroyer armor.

The fight itself between the two friends is awesome, but I don't bring up that fight for the raw power both warriors unleash on one-another.

I bring it up for this crowning moment of respect.

Cap comes in, knows Doom is playing both sides and wants to stop them. He talks Thor down, but then Doom remote triggers a weapon on Thor, and Thor swats Cap away to the U.S. army's side of the conflict. And scene....

Above the rage of a Thunder God and the arsenal of the deadliest battle armor on the planet unleashed upon one another is the sound of Captain America. Your damn right your going to listen.

*mods, the subsequent panels above come from two pages of the comic, minus the Thor vs. Iron Man faceoff.

suggested tags:

char: Captain America/Steve Rogers
char: Thor Odinson/Donald Blake
char: Iron Man/Tony Stark

Date: 2010-03-22 05:15 am (UTC)
sarno001: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarno001
Whew. I definitely straightened up in my seat. Sir, yes, sir.

Date: 2010-03-23 01:51 am (UTC)
autumn_lily: jason todd (Default)
From: [personal profile] autumn_lily
And would've stood up in my pants, had I ever been 'properly armed' so to speak!

Date: 2010-03-22 05:30 am (UTC)
silverzeo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverzeo
Who was president at the time? You know, because this may brake the rule where Captain America prefers to be dead rather than live in a country where the Republicans are in charge.

Date: 2010-03-22 06:00 pm (UTC)
aaron_bourque: default (Default)
From: [personal profile] aaron_bourque
That's not even true, don't go spouting bullshit.

It's prefers to not be Captain America . . .

Date: 2010-03-22 05:43 am (UTC)
sun_man: this is Dick Grayson (Default)
From: [personal profile] sun_man
This was when Bush was president

Date: 2010-03-22 07:32 am (UTC)
proteus_lives: (Default)
From: [personal profile] proteus_lives
Great Cap moment.

It reminds me of Frank Millar's dialogue in an issue of Daredevil with Cap and the Avengers in it. It's about Cap and his presence.

"And the voice that can command a god, does."

Chills man.

Date: 2010-03-22 08:42 am (UTC)
iskander: (Default)
From: [personal profile] iskander
Yeah I think we'll go with CAP on this one sir,all due respect...

Date: 2010-03-22 10:35 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] infinityandbeyond
The stuff legends are made of.

Date: 2010-03-22 01:54 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray

Date: 2010-03-22 04:53 pm (UTC)
okkult3000: (Default)
From: [personal profile] okkult3000
They tried that once in the '80s.

Date: 2010-03-23 05:50 am (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
And it's been posted. :)

Date: 2010-03-23 10:01 pm (UTC)
alexanderlucard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexanderlucard
That was my first ever S-D post!

Date: 2010-03-24 12:29 am (UTC)
lamashtar: "It's just like Hitlers!" (Hitler)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
::nods sagely:: Everyone loves Cap-trips-over-his-own-cape scan.

Date: 2010-03-22 02:16 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
Presidents come and go. This is Captain America.

Date: 2010-03-22 03:06 pm (UTC)
fifth11: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fifth11
Let's listen to the guy with experience on epic levels, shall we?

Date: 2010-03-22 03:53 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Was there any comeback on Tony for conveniently having Thorbuster armour using Asgardian enchantment on hand?

Date: 2010-03-22 04:01 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Not sure how to be honest.

Tony mentions the armour is empowered by the same spell that gives Mjolnir it's power. Thor is not happy at Tony co-opting Asgardian magic to use as his own personal weapon system, not to mention one specifically targetting Thor. (If it were called the Lokibuster Armour, Thor might have had less of an issue with it, but calling it the Thorbsuter is a little... well, somewhere between disrespectful and downright bloody suicidal)

Date: 2010-03-22 05:17 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
So did A) Tony ever actually try to create a useful power source from it, as it was intended or was the personal battlesuit the only thing he did with it?

B) Thor claim the crystal back since Tony seems a little eager to try and turn it into a weapon. (And if he had done it before the world leaders felt Thor was getting out of hand, "just in case", it does smack of being a REALLY shitty thing to do, utterly lacking in trust for his ally... not that Tony Stark would ever behave like that... oh, wait...)

Date: 2010-03-22 03:55 pm (UTC)
crabby_lioness: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crabby_lioness

Date: 2010-03-22 05:01 pm (UTC)
evilsneak: (Default)
From: [personal profile] evilsneak
Wasn't it established that during any active war effort that the moment Captain America steps onto the battlefield / ship / base he is the ranking officer unless a full / four star admiral (O-9) or a full / four star general (OF-9) is present.

Date: 2010-03-22 08:41 pm (UTC)
autolychus2: (Default)
From: [personal profile] autolychus2
I don't know, but given that he calls the CO "Sir", I doubt the writer had heard of such. As an aside, every man there that didn't follow a direct order of his CO should've been court-martialed -- whether the CO was right or not, it was a legal order and they were obliged to comply by the oath they took at their induction ceremonies.

Date: 2010-03-22 10:13 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Cap would probably call him "Sir" out of courtesy.

And as for the court martial, technically true I should imagine, but this is the equivalent of Abraham Lincoln and Superman who has just come in with new intel. Some of them probably only joined the service because of Captain America, and you can bet your bottom currency note that there isn't a one who hasn't heard the stories about the man, about his unerring rightness, and his willingness to fight beside any soldier, any time, and for the right cause.

Date: 2010-03-23 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] falseaesop
The three stars on his helmet implies that its a Lieutenant General, which is a damn high rank.

Cap on the other hand is a WWII legend, medal of honor recipient, superhero, Agent of Shield, and sometimes leader of the Avengers (a government sanctioned agency).

These men are refusing a lawful order, but its not like the guy has no authority.

Date: 2010-03-23 06:03 am (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
The Court of Military Appeals held that "the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal."

All they'd have to do is make the case that Cap was right. Hilariously, the first case of illegal orders in US history is when a president gave the order to seize any ship coming or going from a French harbor. They captured a Danish ship, and the Danes sued in the Supreme Court successfully that the president's order was illegal.

Date: 2010-12-29 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
I wish more people would actually bother to look up these things. Too many people outside and inside the military (in every country, including my own) think that it's basically an autocratic body where the superiors can order their subordinates to do ANYTHING, and if the subordinate refuses an order, he's punished by law, no matter what the order was.

It's not a healthy attitude.

Date: 2010-12-30 01:24 am (UTC)
badficwriter: Captain America holding hands with Iron Man-Let's not fight, let's get along (Cap/Iron Man-Let's not fight)
From: [personal profile] badficwriter
The difficulty is on the subordinate, who is generally indoctrinated to obey, who must exercise that 'ordinary sense and understanding' to decide if an order is illegal or not.

My spouse--who is a military lifer and actually deals with the real world of this--reminds me that we're talking about grey areas on both sides in this specific case. And as a lawyer tells us, the devil is in the details.

In the real world, SHIELD (like the CIA) wouldn't be allowed to operate inside the borders of the United States, except as advisors/observers. The US is far more wary of their/our black ops groups than people think, and we/they are especially wary of foreign powers (which SHIELD was at this time), no matter how many Americans are in it, using any kind of power within the US of A.

XP Trying to apply real world law to fantasy worlds and fantasy law and fantasy black ops groups is giving me a headache.

Date: 2010-03-25 09:24 am (UTC)
bradhanon: (Supervillain)
From: [personal profile] bradhanon
There's a lovely moment in the Rieber-Cassaday run where Cap tells a lieutenant that he needn't salute, because Cap isn't an officer. The lieutenant replies that he knows who Cap is.


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