Wonder Woman's New Costume: Comic Critics

[goggle_kid]

Seeing as how we've already had two webcomics respond to Wonder Woman's new costume, we may as well have a third.

Comments

[mr_austin]

Well at least it's refreshing to see a geek straw-woman. A shame about the "oh they still publish that?" attitude, Wonder Woman never gets the respect she deserves.

I'm honestly ok with the new costume save the jacket and the whole 'urban' schtick attached to it. The jacket prevents the look from aging well and the urban schtick is both a backwards AND lateral step for Diana's character.

Even with the pants--which for the record I do like--why wouldn't a Greco-Roman war skirt similar to the ones Hoplites wore be more apropos for Diana, invoke real life military practicality, and still buffer the whole "swimsuit" argument.

[naebler]

Thats what her mother wore later on in Polly's life. As they look almost exactly alike (Explaining the reason why there was a JSA Wonderwoman at one time) it would be harder to tell them apart than it is now. Keep in mind Polly had the skirt back in the day and Diana had the swim trunks. Then Polly became more Amazonian and wore either a toga or her Hoplite armor.

[former_callixte]

Having not read WW with any regularity since I was a kid in the early 80s, I did not know that about the skirt/armor. (Back when Polly was a blond.) I must say I do like the hoplite skirt the best. But I do like the pants better than the swim suit. I just never liked the swim suit look.

[naebler]

As much as I hated Amazon's attack, the story in WW after the fact with Polly alone on the island save for 4 prisoners was one of my favorites. And when she fights off nazis in her Amazonian armor on a pegasus is badass!

[pepperspray101]

Why was my first thought after reading this..."Did a guy write this?" Then I checked it and saw that it was a guy that wrote it..and my next thought was..."Oh. That makes sense."

And yet, I'm not sure why it does? Anyone want to help me here? Something about this just screamed...A GUY WROTE THIS. Am I nuts for thinking like this?

[a_clericalerror]

Am I nuts for thinking like this?
No, that was my figuring by the third panel when I saw where it was going and confirmed by the fourth when it turned out to be a woman saying the 'oh my god'.

Them WW/feminist fangirls, they're so crazy, eh?

[pepperspray101]

oh yeah, and the chicks who never cared about Wonder Woman are SO KISSABLE.

I wonder if the guy would've still kissed the NON-WW fan for that response if it was a guy like him too. But maybe that would ruin the joke? (personally think it would be funnier...but I digress...)

[thokstar]

The couple that kissed are two of the four/five main characters in the series (neither of whom is attached to anyone at the moment.) Which doesn't make it better, but at least makes it a bit less random.

Not that anybody who doesn't read the thread on a regularly basis would knot it.

(Comic Critics is generally about snark for snakr's sake. This one might wash some of the bad taste from your mouth.)

[espanolbot]

People've mistaken me for a girl on the internet before.

No idea why. I think it's because most of the characters I write are female or something.

[majingojira]

Or perhaps that you write them pretty well.

[espanolbot]

Oh, I wouldn't go that far.

That is something that puzzles me though, which I mentioned over on my livejournal. How is writing for men and women different?

Someone once complained about a writer writing a woman as "a man with breasts", and I had no clue what the heck they were talking about.

[turtlefu]

I believe they were referring to Rucka writing Renee as too butch.

Meanwhile, those same people were complaining that Rucka was writing Kate Kane as too much of a "lipstick lesbian".

Because lesbians can't be masculine OR feminine?

[kaileighblue]

Because people are judgmental pricks that think anything that isn't right to them isn't right to everyone.

Well that came off a bit harsh...

This is coming from a girl that's been called a guy on more than one occasion because my favorite thing to draw is women. And they're usually using in insultingly. "Only a GUY would draw things like that." FFFFFFFFT

[northstarfan]

If it helps, I get mistake for a guy in person at least once a month, usually by other women, who occasionally give me "beauty" tips on how to keep it from happening again. Once had a guy I sent a drink to threaten to kick my "faggot" behind before he realized I had tits.

In short, nah, I don't think that was too harsh.

[foxhack]

YOU'RE NOT A GIRL? D:

[kamino_neko]

I'm just shocked he's not a Dalek. >_>

[espanolbot]

Who says I'm not?

[angelophile]

A girl Dalek?

[pepperspray101]

Could also be cuz you've never acted like you're an asshole privileged. You're very humble and friendly? :D

[espanolbot]

Aw, thanks Pep. ^^

[pepperspray101]

My pleasure! ^^

[arbre_rieur]

Heh. Reminds me of this one:

[shadowpsykie]

I have to admit, i only started really reading spider-man during the Spider-totem run, (slightly before that) all up to OMD.

and i loved them all... (erm minus the Gwen stacy pitty fuck... that face still haunts my nightmares)

that is until the whole Selling your marriage thing...because up until then, JMS and the other writers were showing us how great and perfect Peter and MJ were together, (almost as if JQ was saying, heh give them what they want, and then i will REALLY give it to them.)

that actually made ME go on rant on how JQ basically raped the spier-man fans with a Klingong battle knife, twisted it when they said a part of Peter and MJ's souls would be screaming forever because they knew what they were missing and then twisted it while proceding to piss on us when he showed us "The best parts of both of you" that would never be because of that choice.

....*sigh* im still a little bitter....

[thanekos]

Mel Novak, comics fan!

[stig]

Oh wow, more complaining. And this time, complaining ABOUT complaining. That wasn't getting dull, no sirree...

[espanolbot]

The only good one I've seen is the one from Shortpacked.

These guys I'm not that hot on, if only because it seems to have an odd edge of meanspiritedness in there somehow.

And yeah, I know how weird that is coming from me.

And JLElite was not a "crappy edgy proactive superteam", thank you very much.

[stig]

No, it's not just you - quite a lot of these sort of 'one or two fanboys' comics have a reputation for mean-spiritedness. See also Let's Be Friends Again, which implied that all Doctor Who fans were virgins. Or, well, pretty much any random strip of Ctrl+Alt+Del.

[espanolbot]

Really, because most of the adult Dr Who fans I know, myself included, either have long term girlfriends (like me) or are married.

[stig]

Exactly. It's not only insulting, but also displays the auyhor's staggering ignorance.

Who exactly thinks the model 'two boring bastards discuss and/or mock pop culture topics' is going to make any money these days? Even the most seasoned pros at this mediocre storytelling form - Ryan Sohmer, the dread beast B^U, and whoever it is who makes Penny Arcade have attempted to branch out into different things.

[punishermax]

Honestly good webcomics are pretty rare.

The only ones I can think of are Achewood, MSPaint Adventures, Penny Arcade, Dinosaur Comics and Minus.

People do seem to love XKCD but I fucking can't stand it sooooo

[akodo_rokku]

MSPaint Adventures may be the greatest artistic achievement of our time.

[punishermax]

I'm consistently amazed at how it constantly gets BETTER. I mean, I though it reached peak amazing with the Dave discovering his bro's puppet porn shit, then we get WELCOME TO THE PARTY MOTHER FUCKERS, then we get the Con-Air sequence, then we get Jack:Ascend then we get GOOD DOG, BEST FRIEND, then we get Jade's sacrifice then we get every fucking thing about the trolls.

Jesus Christ, it's the perfect webcomic.

[greenmask]

I would bet that most virginal DW fans are actual children.

[auggie18]

Most of the adult Dr Who fans I know are professors at my college. They are all married and have been for a while. (All being four professors, which still seems like a lot to me, but hey.)

[dimwit90]

That is a totally valid assumption! I was a virgin Doctor Who fan.... when I was 15...

[blackruzsa]

I quote from the webcomic "Gutters"
--"Odd to me that everyone and their mother is talking about Wonder Woman's new costume, yet no one even stops to mention that she still has a lasso.

A Lasso.

Yeah."

[psychopathicus_rex]

What's so weird about her still having the lasso? It's one of the iconic weapons of comics.

[blackruzsa]

Well it never made sense at all that American-flag costume+Lasso= Greek Princess.

I'm not complaining, I'm just wondering why people have to complain about everything else.

[psychopathicus_rex]

It kind of DID, actually, if you think about it. I mean, the original Golden Age Wondy origin basically had her being sent to the modern world not just to spread peace and love and whatnot, but also to help out against the more urgent problem of the times, aka WW2 - and, this being, you know, the '40's, and an American comic, the modern world translated to 'America'. Hence, a costume with elements of the American flag actually made sense, because she wasn't just appealing to Americans' better natures, she was also appealing to their nationalism and patriotism so they would be inspired by her to keep fighting those dirty Nazis - her battle-cry during the first few years was actually 'keep 'em flying!', so... yeah. And in modern continuity, of course, we have the bit with Steve Trevor's mom and her insignia inspiring the Amazons to adopt it as a symbol of bravery.
As for the lasso, that's not as uniquely American as you might think. True, 'lasso' pretty much equals 'cowboy' in most people's minds, but the lasso is actually one hell of a lot older than America - apparently, it dates back to, at the very least, ancient Egypt! So it's not at all unlikely that the Amazons would have had knowledge of such a thing.

[cmdr_zoom]

This left a sour taste in my mouth.

[joasakura]

yeah, that's the reaction I had too. Well said.

[halialkers]

I will second this post.

[irrelevant]

Thirded.

(Also, I like Diana's new look. Does that make me a bad person?)

[dimwit90]

I like it too! :)

[teamrodent]

Same here on both points. :)

[halialkers]

Again, I could give two shakes of a rat's ass about the costume change (not that I see why people would *want* two shakes of a rat's ass, as that's one of them weird phrases). My problem is that they simply wiped out the entire continuity of one of the Trinity. She didn't even get a big event like Batman: RIP or the Death and Resurrection of Kryptonian space Jesus-er that is to say Superman. Just BOOM! editorial fiat and the continuity is gone. And the editors saw the chaos and called it good. >.<

The focus on the costume change itself says a lot about the webcomic writers as much as it does about the treatment given WW as a character. I mean to be honest I was more a Teen Titans fan than anything but this kind of thing to one of the Trinity is just stupid.

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

I don't think they've wiped out the continuity. Haven't they even said that it will eventually revert back? Even if they haven't, I think that's pretty much a given. I look at this as being similar to one of those silver age stories where a hero would wake up (or come back to Earth after some outerspace heroing) and find everything different, then discover why and make everything normal again. Except, since this is 2010 and not the silver age, this will be done over a year or two instead of an issue or two.

The focus on the costume reminds me of something that bothered me about a recent episode of Dr. Who. River Song lands the TARDIS, 11 says "We can't have landed, It didn't make the 'whoop whoop whoop' sound," and RS says "It's not supposed to do that, it just does because you keep the brakes on." They were destroying something iconic and immediately recognizable about the series for the sake of a throwaway joke. (And they've ignored it ever since, but now the noise doesn't mean the TARDIS is landing, it means he's still keeping the brakes on.)

[kamino_neko]

I don't think they've wiped out the continuity. Haven't they even said that it will eventually revert back? Even if they haven't, I think that's pretty much a given.

I don't know what they have or haven't said about it, but since the entire prologue chapter in issue 600 was the oracle telling Diana 'the world is fucked up, you're supposed to fix it, now go do it (and can you bring me some gum?)'...yeah, it seems pretty clear they're planning to undo it.

[khamelea]

I always take what River Song says with a chunk of salt.

[halialkers]

Not sure how much that's them and how much that's fan blowback. The sudden launching of it without so much as a hint is problematic. The costume change is minute next to the reality that Batman and the like get mega-events while this is done without even a perfunctory hint that WW comics matter.

[dimwit90]

I thought they weren't scratching out her history just writing one big AU saga or one of those "this isn't reality" things or "someone has messed with our memories and altered history!" things? God, I hope thats what they're doing...

[halialkers]

Doesn't seem to be much difference to me, but then that's after having seen Superman get his own Comics Crossover Crisis and all the publicity around Batman: RIP.

[espanolbot]

Wow, err, kinda didn't see this post before I did my Casstoon. XP Sorry if it seems I lifted a joke.

[jarodrussell]

Haha! I LOL'd.

[thandrak]

You know, these guys really aren't... very... into comics. Seriously. I mean, 'Scott Pilgrim' as a comic that someone with indie cred would want? It's a comic that a hipster who doesn't like comics would read.

aaand... the lasso thing... I mean, how can you work in a comics store and not know about the fun bondage history of Wonder Woman?

... or..
the Justice Riders elseworlds.

[thandrak]

Right, that's Gutters. Nevermind, Ryan knows comics. But seriously, I'm chewing through ComicCritics, and it's like it's written by someone who... hangs out with someone who works at a comics store. Doesn't actually visit the store, just hangs out with him now and again.

[meatwhichdreams]

Excuse me, I am a huge indie comic snob, and have been mad about comics since I was about 4, and I absolutely adore Scott Pilgrim. Represent! It's unfortunate that the series has been over-exposed, often as a way to get people who "don't like comics" to read comics, but it really is a solid series that has a lot of fans from inside the comic world.

[thandrak]

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just... I dunno. I never really considered it indie.

[meatwhichdreams]

Well, I guess indie is a pretty subjective term. But I think you will find a lot of Scott Pilgrim fans among fans of all the other comic genres, that's all.

[curlyjo1]

Yikes. I met that frothing fangirl at a con a couple of weeks ago. Only it wasn't Wonder Woman she was flipping out over, it was Civil War. Still.

[carnivorousgiraffe]

I read the entire archive of these awhile ago and came out with a bad taste in my mouth. A lot of things bugged me but I think the worst was the neverending ongoing feud that seemed to imply that it was impossible for someone to be a fan of both Indie comics and Superhero comics. Seriously? Because I know of very few people actually who only like one or the other.

And the complete lack of likeable characters or unlikeable characters who at least occasionally get their comuppance was a factor too.

But, yeah. Just another strip that paints all comic fans as strawmen to be cut down by a main character's "wit". Ugh.

[northstarfan]

Laughing at your icon makes me a terrible person, doesn't it?

[carnivorousgiraffe]

Probably. But not as terrible as I am for making it. :P

[northstarfan]

So long as I'm not alone!

[wasabi.livejournal.com]

This makes no sense. Anyone at my LCS freely admitting they're not actually going to buy a book after getting their hands all over it have gotten an icy stare and a request to hand it back so it could be re-sealed.

[psychopathicus_rex]

Well, while I personally am not particularly upset by Wondy's change on costume - I don't APPROVE; I don't like it, but I'm not really upset - this does a pretty good job of satirizing how the whole damn internet seems to be flipping out about this at the moment. For all that WW commonly seems to be regarded by DC as the sort of directionless little sister of Batman and Superman, it just goes to show you how many fans she actually has out there. .

[psychopathicus_rex]

...'OF costume'.

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

She kind of IS the directionless little sister of Batman and Superman. Sixty years of inconsistent writing will do that. The difference isn't how many comic book fans like her, it's how recognizable her mythology is to people who don't read comic books.

Look at the supporting casts: Superman has Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Lana Lang and so on. Batman has Alfred, Commisioner Gordon, Dick Greyson, Barbara Gordon, and so on. Wonder Woman has people with the same names as Steve Trevor and Etta Candy. By "same names," I mean that Lois Lane is the same character that worked with Clark Kent and was in love with Superman and no matter who Dick and Barbara are now, they're the same people that used to be Robin and Batgirl, but the Steve Trevor we have now was never Wonder Woman's adoring boyfriend. (not that he was used well in the past. He was pretty much a jerk in the Silver Age and beat Gwen Stacy as the first love interest into the fridge.)

Both her origin and her powers are also vaguely defined. From the beginning, being an arts and crafts project just isn't as memorable as watching your parents' murder or having your home planet explode, but after that, what happened? Depends when you're asking. Having Polly as the WW2 Wonder Woman might solve some continuity issues, but it dilutes the character. Either she or the current Wonder Woman isn't the real one, whereas Superman was always Clark Kent and Batman was always Bruce Wayne. (I doubt anyone thought Dick was going to permanently replace him) Is it currently even acknowledged that ever had a secret identity and was Diana Prince?

The problem with the costume is that by changing it, they're taking away one of the few things that were consistently Wonder Woman over the years. Superman and Batman (and, for the most part, Wonder Woman) have had their costumes modified over the years, but it was always recognizable as their costume.

I suspect she'll be back to something recognizable as her old costume sooner rather than later, though. Despite what I just said, she's still a valuable property as a brand name and image. DC isn't going to want to lose that.

[psychopathicus_rex]

Er... I'm fairly certain she DOES (or DID, just prior to all this) have the secret identity as Diana Prince. She'd done away with it for years, yes, but recently, she'd gotten it back.
Oh, I absolutely agree that her supporting cast and the like have been repeatedly yanked around to the point where they're no longer recognizable. What she really needs is CONSISTENCY for a decade or two; that would bring in an audience - which makes this current change that much more exasperating.