Something I flailed over way too much this week

[kingrockwell]

Team Phonogram reunites for this issue, with Hope and crew having a quiet day on Utopia. Towards the end, she gets a letter.





Haaaank ;_;

Comments

[nezchan]

Hank just doesn't do concise, does he?

[kingrockwell]

I would dare posit that he may not entirely understand the purpose of the word!

[nezchan]

The real Hank would have taken at least three paragraphs to say that.

[kingrockwell]

Ah, but a gentleman with a headache and multiple other obligations is certain to have his attention spread thin, and have little to spare for a matter such as this.

I apologize if I'm not exactly up to snuff at the moment, I will give it my best attempt in the future.

[mullon]

I haven't paid attention of X-Men in a while. Is Hope a Mary Sue? She's sounds like a Mary Sue.

[salinea]

it's hard to judge whether a character is a Mary Sue when the only thing she say on the scan is "huh".

[starwolf_oakley]

Well, she was taught in survival/combat/weapons by *Cable* of all people, she *may* be the reincarnation of Jean Grey, and she's somehow going to save all of mutantkind from extinction.

The fact she's really uncertain about what the heck she's supposed to do and how the heck she's supposed to do it makes her less of a Mary Sue. Not that I fully understand what a "Mary Sue" is. "Practically perfect in every way" *seems* to be the definition

[kingrockwell]

man if i never hear the phrase "mary sue" again it'll be too soon

[kingrockwell]

everyone expects she's supposed to save mutantkind from extinction, at least
(that or finally kill them off for good, a few seem to think)
i've only been keeping up since Generation Hope started, but they ICly pretty flippant about the whole messiah thing

basically any time you make any kind of classic "chosen one" role and make it a lady instead of a dude people are gonna accuse it of being a mary sue

[salinea]

That's not a Mary Sue, that's a Messianic Archetype.

[shadeedge]

By and large, that's it, but there are exceptions. Other aspects may include every other character in the story stopping what they're doing to immediately revolve around her, or her specifically being said to be better than Character X at Thing That Character X Is Known For.

You can have Mary Sues with flaws, but they need to be "fake" or positive flaws. So for example, being so gosh-darn beautiful that other people are jealous isn't really a flaw (depending on the writing, of course). The question as far as whether not having knowledge stops her being a Mary Sue largely is; is it there entirely so that we're inclined to root for her? When the flaw is one that is (presumably) going to be answered and solved within the story, it's not really a flaw.

[warpedhand]

Eh, I am absolutely sick of "chosen one" archetypes regardless. I will agree that since there is basically a catchall term for women in this role if you're not careful and specific, it can be a bit easier and more widespread to complain about, but I don't particularly like males in the role, either.

[long_silence]

Yeah pretty much everyone should leave the damn island.

BTW I thought the whole point of Utopia was that it was own country, why does that envelope say it's in the USA?

Do they pay taxes?

[warpedhand]

You expect Marvel to actually consider the in story ramifications of their world changing events? Why would they do that when they can simply write the same half-dozen or so X-men stories over and over and over again?

[auggie18]

Her powers are also a bit troubling. From what I can tell, she can activate other people's powers and, according to wikipedia, can use the powers of every single mutant on earth. Prodigy described her a "mutant voodoo doll", which to my knowledge makes absolutely no sense.

[kingrockwell]

"every other character in the story stopping what they're doing to immediately revolve around her"

That actually describes a protagonist. The Lights all have canonical reasons for acting that way toward Hope, and it's not completely played as a positive thing, either.

[kingrockwell]

Only through contact. Wikipedia isn't always going to be a good source on such a thing, especially when it's only been outlined in any detail in recent issues.

[thanekos]

She's not the mutant messiah until this guy gets her in the side.

[batman]

Really? Huh. I had noticed that pretty much anyone that touched Hope was kind of creepily obsessed with her welfare before the Generation Hope story started, so I was wondering whether it was intentional or not. I might even give Marvel some credit with how they're handling Hope in that case.

[auggie18]

Good point.


Was the bullet stopping thing she did during her time with Cable a result of her using his powers or something she did herself?

I like Hope. They've done a pretty good job showing her as a nervous girl, confident in her abilities, but very out of her element.

She best be stepping back from Franklin Richards, though. That's Rachel Grey's man.

[long_silence]

I don't think she needs contact. In the Second Coming finale she used Cyclops, Colossus, Iceman, Magma, Armor and maybe more. I don't think she touched most of them.

[kingrockwell]

Honestly, I've only been keeping up since Generation Hope, so I don't really know how anything before was done.

and they need to bring rachel back so bad

[nezchan]

Come to think of it, he's remarkably concise in S.W.O.R.D., at least the scans that have popped up here. More saying smart things that are worth saying, and less trying to impress everyone with how many big words he knows.

The way a lot of writers handle him, his dialogue comes off as desperately wanting to be noticed.

[halloweenjack]

I've certainly heard the term applied so broadly that it means absolutely nothing. Create a protagonist that's fairly appealing and it's a Mary Sue. Have a protagonist that resembles the writer in any conceivable way, no matter how faintly (and never mind the principle of writing what you know), Mary Sue. Expanding the list of characteristics to the point of meaninglessness is a combination of the nerd tendency toward compiling exhaustive lists (hello, TV Tropes!) and the results of silly little slap parties between fanfic writers.

[glprime]

He's actually been interpreted that way (smart guy trying to impress people/be center of attention to draw notice away from his "deformities") for a long time. I'd say it's a legit character trait.