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Jun. 30th, 2011 02:28 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
bluefall posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
scans_dailySo I've been a little out of the loop lately, for various reasons. Given the current direction of DC, expect that to continue. But I managed to stick my head back in and check in with my girls this week, and a few brief moments stood out as worthy of comment. Or maybe I just feel a need to talk about comics before the coming reboot steals all motivation to ever do so again, idk.
From BoP #12, as Helena attempts to recruit the Question:
I'm not sure I've actually come out and said this, but I'm pretty much wholly onjarodrussell's team at this point wrt Oracle. So this isn't terribly surprising or annoying from my standard canon-rejecting Babsfan standpoint. But I'm kind of staring askance at the slight to Dinah and Helena, there. Particularly since Gail herself was the one who wrote the most recent and respectful portrayal of Dinah's detective moxie. Sure, neither of them is on Renee and Babs' level, but Helena's not going to come up to Diana and be like "what we don't have is a melee fighter" just because she and Dinah aren't kryptonian-class, y'know? I mean I suppose it's true that they don't have a detective, inasmuch as they, in fact, have three, but I don't think that's what Helena was supposed to be going for here.
From Wondy #612:
Looks like someone's been attending the Geoff Johns school of antitheism. Also, way too much Zeus. I was relatively cool with Psycho's role in #609 because it did at least make sense for the characters and their relationship and said something important about Diana's compassion and inspirational effect, but those justifications don't hold here and it's really not okay for Zeus to take Athena's place next to Aphrodite.
That said, kudos for noting Diana is largely a creature of hope (someone at least has managed to avoid the Geoff Johns school of ring assignation), and for the reasonably slashable Temi death a few pages prior. Since I'm highly suspicious they'll take the reboot opportunity to try to stick her back with Steve Trevor, I'm trying to appreciate this JMS clusterfuck as at least the last guaranteed portrayal of Diana as emotionally independent and potentially queer.
Speaking of, from Sirens #24:
And then Harley proceeds to kick her ass while she's off balance, which... I don't even... what? This is just stupid. Either Ivy and Harley are in (sick, twisted, abusive, supervillain-style, but nevertheless) love, or they aren't. If they aren't, they've just been friends all this time, and this taunt makes no sense. If they are, they've been shagging like demented but hot rabbits for years now, and Ivy's love for Harley isn't in question, and this taunt makes no sense. I mean it's not like I expect better from Sirens but this is just... not how you actually finally address Harley/Ivy in explicit canon.
And to end this post on a positive note, from Zatanna #14:
It's so weird to actually like something Beechen wrote. I mean, he still has no idea how Zatanna's powers work, but Zatanna in this issue is competent, in control, and clashes amusingly with Zach; Zach is the damsel-in-distress while Zee is never even on her back foot; the hero saves the day through quick thinking and an understanding of her opponent; the whole story is a quick, clean done-in-one; we even get a nod to a non-Western mythology. Do we know anything about Zee's coming fate post-reboot? It would be a real shame to lose this title.
From BoP #12, as Helena attempts to recruit the Question:
I'm not sure I've actually come out and said this, but I'm pretty much wholly on
jarodrussell's team at this point wrt Oracle. So this isn't terribly surprising or annoying from my standard canon-rejecting Babsfan standpoint. But I'm kind of staring askance at the slight to Dinah and Helena, there. Particularly since Gail herself was the one who wrote the most recent and respectful portrayal of Dinah's detective moxie. Sure, neither of them is on Renee and Babs' level, but Helena's not going to come up to Diana and be like "what we don't have is a melee fighter" just because she and Dinah aren't kryptonian-class, y'know? I mean I suppose it's true that they don't have a detective, inasmuch as they, in fact, have three, but I don't think that's what Helena was supposed to be going for here.From Wondy #612:
Looks like someone's been attending the Geoff Johns school of antitheism. Also, way too much Zeus. I was relatively cool with Psycho's role in #609 because it did at least make sense for the characters and their relationship and said something important about Diana's compassion and inspirational effect, but those justifications don't hold here and it's really not okay for Zeus to take Athena's place next to Aphrodite.
That said, kudos for noting Diana is largely a creature of hope (someone at least has managed to avoid the Geoff Johns school of ring assignation), and for the reasonably slashable Temi death a few pages prior. Since I'm highly suspicious they'll take the reboot opportunity to try to stick her back with Steve Trevor, I'm trying to appreciate this JMS clusterfuck as at least the last guaranteed portrayal of Diana as emotionally independent and potentially queer.
Speaking of, from Sirens #24:
And then Harley proceeds to kick her ass while she's off balance, which... I don't even... what? This is just stupid. Either Ivy and Harley are in (sick, twisted, abusive, supervillain-style, but nevertheless) love, or they aren't. If they aren't, they've just been friends all this time, and this taunt makes no sense. If they are, they've been shagging like demented but hot rabbits for years now, and Ivy's love for Harley isn't in question, and this taunt makes no sense. I mean it's not like I expect better from Sirens but this is just... not how you actually finally address Harley/Ivy in explicit canon.
And to end this post on a positive note, from Zatanna #14:
It's so weird to actually like something Beechen wrote. I mean, he still has no idea how Zatanna's powers work, but Zatanna in this issue is competent, in control, and clashes amusingly with Zach; Zach is the damsel-in-distress while Zee is never even on her back foot; the hero saves the day through quick thinking and an understanding of her opponent; the whole story is a quick, clean done-in-one; we even get a nod to a non-Western mythology. Do we know anything about Zee's coming fate post-reboot? It would be a real shame to lose this title.
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Date: 2011-06-30 08:47 pm (UTC)Zatanna will be a member of "Justice League Dark" I think.
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Date: 2011-06-30 08:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 08:50 pm (UTC)funny, i actually really like the Harley/ivy scene. Ivy and Harley's "relationship" that has always been toyed with, See that one Batgirl/Harley scene a while back "Oh you mean like what everyone says about you and supergirl?" i mean, people pretty much agree that Harley and Ivy do it like bunnies. Wether Ivy has ever admited outloud (she does not strike me as the type that would SAY it) or Harley has, no one has ever heard. THIS plays to Harley's keen intelligence AND skills as a shrink. SHE knows how Ivy feels about her, saying it outloud like that WOULD throw Ivy off because Ivy is not the type of person to say that to ANYONE even Harley, emotions are things SHE can manipulate, things SHE likes to control, for Pamela to admit she loves something other than plants takes ALOT. Harley on the other hand might love Ivy... BUT eveytime the Joker gets thrown into the mix all bets are off. It was not the best written (though i loved the bat/cat scenes) but the IDEA was great.
as far as Wonder Woman, it wasn't my favorite, but still so much better than JMS alone (and that saddens me) also I don't see it so much as Anti-theism, its more like, the gods powers can only take you so far, you cannot rely on them for everything, just like you cant deny them, when it comes down to it, you have to rely on your own strength. the stregth and power YOU develope, with some guidance from the gods yes, but in the end, its YOU that makes the choices.
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Date: 2011-06-30 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 08:55 pm (UTC)you are right though (save for the bat/cat scenes) it is poorly written, the story ITSELF on the other hand could have worked if the writting was better.
one question... WHAT went down between Dick and Selina a while back that is constantly being mentioned?
one more thing, as much as i love Ivy, the plant got what she deserved, i LOVED Selina paying her back out of pure sweet revenge, you do NOT Fuck with Selina Kyle
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Date: 2011-06-30 08:55 pm (UTC)Yet another writer decides they are so much more awesome than a decade's worth of subtext. And I roll my eyes so hard it'll take a copay to get them back in properly.
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 09:05 pm (UTC)You thought correctly. Hence my comment that Beechen still has no idea how Zee's powers actually work.
Your justification of the Harley/Ivy scene is a fair stab, but unfortunately contradicted by the "I awaken old ghosts" from Harley's inner monologue there. Also it would make a lot more sense in that context for Harley to toss "hot sex" in there with the things that Ivy gets out of their friendship.
... and man, if she had, that would almost redeem this issue for me. Dammit.
And really, any time you get a god - an Olympian, no less, a breed known in particular for their universal rank arrogance - telling a mortal that the mortal is more worthy of worship and respect than they and has every right and reason to turn her back on them, you're looking at Johnsian antitheism. There's no more direct statement you can make as a writer that a god is worth less than a mortal and shouldn't be worshipped than to have the god himself say it.
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:11 pm (UTC)Though her and Mme X should be fun together. (Constantine I'm a little more dubious about, that strikes me as an easy relationship to mess up.)
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 09:12 pm (UTC)"justice league dark" my god do they even listen to themselves when they pitch these things?
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:12 pm (UTC)Not so much when she's in love with this guy who like, actually successfully viciously murders like millions of fucking people all over the place all the time.
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:13 pm (UTC)HMMMMMM
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:13 pm (UTC)Well, keep in mind, Harley Quinn only reached the mainstream DC Universe during No Man's Land. Exactly how long ago that was in DCU time, I don't know. But part of the reason Harley is so agile is because of something Poison Ivy did to her.
Although, at least there's some explanation for Ivy and/or Harley being gay. Fans thought Element Lad from the Legion of Super-Heroes had to be gay because his costume was pink.
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 09:30 pm (UTC)And I wish I had the luxury of another year of storytelling to care...
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 09:37 pm (UTC)kinda not letting this one go. i don't get the whole "I awaken old ghosts" thing. but the rest though, hot sex is not the same thing as love. hot sex would not distract Ivy as she is FINE with hot sex. its a tool and a weapon for her. but you throw the L word out there (not THAT L word:) and some one like Ivy is bound to be thrown off because she does not acknowledge those types of feelings.
its the "I awaken old ghosts part" i dont understand, what ghosts does she awaken? unless Harley means that Ivy let her so close she knows what would throw Ivy off, such as saying that she loves some one.
i still agree this is badly written (again besides the bat/cat stuff, that was cute :D but the essence of the story was still good, and this scene was the best part (non bat or cat) of the whole issue.
maybe for as a writer i can see all the elements for a very intruiging story... but its poorly executed here, its a damn good idea, but... well, you see?
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:44 pm (UTC)im okay, really
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:45 pm (UTC)also i will mention again, that one DCAU issue where Batgirl asks Harley about her and Ivy's "special relationship" and Harley is like "Oh you mean like everyone says about you and Supergirl?" teehee
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Date: 2011-06-30 09:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 10:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-06-30 10:16 pm (UTC)Peter Calloway is not a good writer. He does not have respect for the characters that he writes. Gail Simone can write villains that are likeable but never lose their malevolent charm. His dialogue is full of clichés and puns and his characterization is supremely hollow.
The Ivy/Catwoman issue should have been dealt with waaaaay back when the series was still in its infancy, not 2 years later completely out of the blue. The fact that Selina stabbed Ivy in the back for that betrayal is just utterly stupid.
Calloway means to tell us that these 3 stuck their necks out for one another through all of these trials and tribulations, and Selina was planning to set Ivy up the entire time? Ivy was DEAD at one point and Selina frantically threw her into water to bring her back to life! She even had a greenhouse built for the woman! Ivy and Harley also put their necks on the line to save Selina's demented sister and save her from Black Mask, and after all of that, Selina chooses THEN to betray Ivy?? Ivy deserved some kind of punishment for what she did to Selina back in #2, but it should have been dealt with then and there.
It's funny, but this whole prolonged revenge scenario reminded me of a throwaway Family Guy line from 2001. Peter repaints the family car to look like the General Lee. When Brian tries to jump in through the window, Peter forgot to roll it down, so Brian just smashes into the side of the car. 4 years later in a 2005 episode, Brian throws a rock at Peter and shouts, "That's for rolling up the damn window when I tried to jump into the General Lee!".