[identity profile] suzene.insanejournal.com posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Title: Wolverine: First Class #12 (Marvel, 2009, 22 pages)
Creators: Fred Van Lente (writer), Scott Koblish (pencils)
Availability: Available In Trade

I found this during a foraging expedition at the local used media shop and picked this up from the quarter bin. I got a laugh out of this just because one of my first RPG groups used to have this argument all the time, and I felt like sharing.


The story takes place during Uncanny X-Men #150, which explains that...thing that Kitty is burning in the first scan.

Anyway, S_D, what say you: costume or uniform?

third time's the charm...

Date: 2009-05-23 12:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Most Leaguers wear costumes.

Bats wear uniforms.

Diana wears armor.

X-Men vary, but any time they're all wearing variations on the same (like in the final scan), it's definitely a uniform. Since they're... uniform. Sort of part of the definition.

Re: third time's the charm...

Date: 2009-05-23 02:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unknownscribler.insanejournal.com
Diana wears armor

How is Egypt this time of year?

Date: 2009-05-23 02:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Very dry, and smells like crocodiles. Which I bet you didn't even know had a smell, but they do.

Nice scenery, though. They've got this long-ass river like you wouldn't believe. I'm thinkin' I might ride it all the way to the mouth.

Date: 2009-05-23 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seawolf10.insanejournal.com
I'm thinkin' I might ride it all the way to the mouth.

Mind the cataracts. They'd make a nasty interruption to your dreams of Diana in cuirass, greaves, and Corinthian helm.

Date: 2009-05-23 08:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seriousfic.insanejournal.com
I think a Corinthian helm would be too intimidating for Diana? She's a Superman-level hitter anyway, so it'd be like Bruce Lee wearing a bike helmet. If she's going to be fighting Omega the God-Slayer, sure, but I think usually she'd follow the Superman rationale and leave her face open.

Date: 2009-05-23 10:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenmask.insanejournal.com
If Bruce Lee ever wore a bike helmet I'm pretty sure that would be my favourite movie ever

Re: third time's the charm...

Date: 2009-05-23 06:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
No (http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/241-13.jpg) they really don't (http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/detective-comics/165-1.jpg)

Re: third time's the charm...

Date: 2009-05-23 09:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fungo_squiggly.insanejournal.com
Oh god. Batman's got a costume AND a uniform!

Now I don't know what to believe.

Re: third time's the charm...

Date: 2009-05-23 02:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] long_silence.insanejournal.com
Those yellow ones are for dealing with Hal aren't they?

Date: 2009-05-23 01:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xandertarbert.insanejournal.com
Spidey calls it a uniform. I'm gonna go with that.

Date: 2009-05-23 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bariman1987.insanejournal.com
He also calls his footwear "booties." Make of that what you will.

Date: 2009-05-23 04:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xandertarbert.insanejournal.com
Pure honestey, since his booties are made of cloth, with a thin layer of rubber at the bottom. Thus, booties.

Plus, it's a fun word to say. He's all about the booties.

Date: 2009-05-23 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kijikun.insanejournal.com
Spider-Man also forgets that his spidey-suit caffs when its wet.

Date: 2009-05-23 02:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tanetris.insanejournal.com
Anything that can be described as "spangly" is a costume.

If your team are all wearing the same or near-same thing, it's a uniform.

If Wolverine is wearing it, it's whatever the hell he says it is. Similarly for anyone else who has sufficient ability to inflict harm and temper. Scott does not qualify.

Date: 2009-05-23 03:36 am (UTC)
ext_9388: Polina Semionova. Neck tilted, cheek resting on right shoulder, looking at you. (ally hood)
From: [identity profile] ashenmote.insanejournal.com
If Wolverine is wearing it, it's whatever the hell he says it is.

He's best at what he does and what he does is calling his costume an uniform.

Date: 2009-05-23 06:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
No, because that's exactly what they're doing.

Date: 2009-05-23 07:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlbarnett.insanejournal.com
entirely appropriate if they are

Date: 2009-05-23 10:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mari_redstar.insanejournal.com
I think they're meant to be clapping for Kitty- sort of a "good for you, hard job done well!" thing, recognizing the strength of will it took to recognize that it was time to let go of the spangly roller-skating costume, and by "let go" I mean "kill it with fire".

Date: 2009-05-23 04:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tanetris.insanejournal.com
I disagree only with the word "oddly".

Wouldn't you applaud it?

Date: 2009-05-23 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khamelea.insanejournal.com
"Costume work, not costume play!

I like this!

Date: 2009-05-23 04:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] proteus_lives.insanejournal.com
Perfect example of the oil and water dynamic mixed in with grudgingly earned respect that is the relationship between Logan and Scott.

costume or uniform?

Depends on who is wearing the threads. Spidey? Costume. Captain America? Uniform. It totally goes hero by hero.

Re: I like this!

Date: 2009-05-23 04:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jazzypom.insanejournal.com
Perfect example of the oil and water dynamic mixed in with grudgingly earned respect that is the relationship between Logan and Scott.


Re: I like this!

Date: 2009-05-23 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joysweeper.insanejournal.com
This, motto.

Date: 2009-05-23 04:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
It's simple Wolverine has it wrong; Uniform does NOT mean "work clothes".

The whole point of calling something a "uniform" is that it is supposed to unite those wearing it - one-form. It makes those wearing it resemble each other (Not necessarily identical but similar). If it does NOT do that, it's NOT a uniform, it's a costume.

Superheroes rarely wear uniforms for that reason, they wear costumes to make them instantly identifiable and unique.

McDonalds staff wear a uniform, the guy who dreses up like a hotdog to hand out fliers is wearing a costume.

There is nothing about the X-men's costumes which unites them (beyond an X SOMEWHERE on the costume), so they are simply NOT uniforms.

The X-Men training outfits, as worn by the original five, and the New Mutants, ARE uniforms. IIRC Even the original X-Force usually had a uniting design to their leotards, a badly drawn one, but the striped inner leg's were common to them.

Date: 2009-05-23 06:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
Oh and Wolverines comment about "An actors job is to pretend to be somebody he ain't. I ain't pretendin'. This is me all the time" would be a tad more plausible if he weren't wearing a face mask to protect his secret identity!

Date: 2009-05-23 07:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smirnoffmule.insanejournal.com
IDK, I think Logan wears a mask just because he damn well wants to. Like I said, fetish gear. It's not like he even really has an identity at this point; just a name which is neither a first name or a last name and actually isn't his anyway.

Date: 2009-05-23 06:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thandrak.insanejournal.com
It's an Action Suit! Ask any 70s DC hero!

Date: 2009-05-23 07:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smirnoffmule.insanejournal.com
I would call it fetish gear... a suit.

I think though if it's a word that follows "roller skating", it's a costume. One does not roller skate in a uniform.

Date: 2009-05-23 08:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blunderbuss.insanejournal.com
With the definition of uniform aside, I still liked Wolvie's reasoning about why he called it that and why it was important. Nice bit of Wolvie characterization there, and with Cyclops too when he called it a costume.

Date: 2009-05-23 08:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ar_feiniel_.insanejournal.com
I think it's funny that Wolverine seems even more anal and passionate about the proper term for field garb than Cyclops.

Date: 2009-05-23 09:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liarashadowsong.insanejournal.com
Costume or uniform? It depends on who's wearing it.

If you're on a team, and everyone wears similar outfits, they're uniforms. The X-Men typically wear uniforms. If it's a non-matching outfit compared to the rest of the team, it's a costume, particularly if it's glittery, spangly, or neon. Kitty got rid of her old costume.

Captain America wears a uniform. When Steve Rogers temporarily used the codename Nomad instead, he made his own costume.

Spider-Man's outfit is almost always a costume. It's awesome, but looks like a circus-performer acrobat's outfit. Except for the Iron-Man-colored one with the extra legs; that one's a uniform.

Superman... can call what he wears a costume or a uniform; it's up to him. Except if he wears the ruffly getup, then it gets called a fashion faux pas.

The Batclan's outfits are always uniforms. Always. (Except for maybe Nightwing's outfit with man-cleavage. See Steve's Nomad costume for why. But he's a former circus performer, so I guess it's forgivable - that and he's hot. ;P)

Wonder Woman's outfit should be armor. I have seen the armor, and it is awesome. What it often ends up as deserves no more title than a star-spangled swimsuit with a quarter of a breastplate added on as an afterthought.

Starting to get the idea? And Scott's just silly. You adorable dorkwad, your outfit is only a costume and not a uniform because it looks like a body-condom! Poor Kitty.

Date: 2009-05-23 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icon_uk.insanejournal.com
If you're on a team, and everyone wears similar outfits, they're uniforms. The X-Men typically wear uniforms.

Forgive me, but since when? Training costumes aside, what unifying design elements have the standard X-Men teams had? Original X-Men graduation costumes? Nope. The All-New, all Different X-Men, not even a unifying X-buckle. The Australian era team? Nope. Current team? Nope. etc

On the other hand, the first X-factor did have a unifying design elements, but with radically different colour schemes.

The original Gamma Flight had uniforms too.

Date: 2009-05-24 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liarashadowsong.insanejournal.com
Okay, sorry, geez. I seemed to remember there being some versions of the X-Men team with semi-matching uniforms. But I don't personally know every single version of the team that there has ever been, and apparently my mind must have been playing tricks on me. I still stand by my point, if not my example.

Date: 2009-05-23 09:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] volksjager.insanejournal.com
THAT totally made my morning !

Date: 2009-05-23 10:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] menagerie.insanejournal.com
They're both wrong you know. They're really pervert suits. ;)

Date: 2009-05-23 10:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janegray.insanejournal.com
*clears throat*

Logan/Scott OTP

That's all.

Date: 2009-05-23 10:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] greenmask.insanejournal.com
I dont know about uniform/costume, but Kitty's disgust over the slime tentacle is expressed really nicely with her posing.

Date: 2009-05-23 11:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pyrotwilight.insanejournal.com
Sweet, tentacles.

Date: 2009-05-23 12:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] virusq.insanejournal.com
Uniform. It's totally a uniform.

Date: 2009-05-23 12:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] taggerung301.insanejournal.com
this is pretty hilarious
im gonna say that whether its a costume or a unifrom depends on who is wearing it

green goblin wears a costume
spiderman - costume
punisher - uniform
captain america - uniform

Date: 2009-05-23 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rdfox.insanejournal.com
You know, the day this issue hit the shelves, before I picked it up, I jokingly described the book to a friend as being more accurately named "Kitty Pryde's Excellent Loli Adventures."

And then I get this issue and find she spends the first four pages running around in a sports bra and low-rider high-cut panties.

You can only imagine how dirty I felt...

Date: 2009-05-23 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bariman1987.insanejournal.com
Marvel: Because YOU demanded it!

Date: 2009-05-23 05:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kijikun.insanejournal.com
And then Kitty killed everyone and ran around naked.

Date: 2009-05-23 11:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] psychop_rex.insanejournal.com
You know, 'costume' basically just means 'clothes'. One of the definitions the dictionary gives is 'a complete set of outer clothes considered as a unit and worn for a particular purpose'. So, if you're a painter and you wear an old T-shirt and jeans while painting, then that could be considered your painting costume. If you're a surfer and you wear a wetsuit, then that could be considered you surfing costume.
Most superheroes design their outfits themselves for the purpose of crimefighting, so I think 'costume', in this instance, is entirely appropriate. It's a 'costume' because it's clothes that you wear for a certain purpose - you wear it under your normal clothes in much the same way that you'd wear a swimsuit under your normal clothes in the summer when you're going to be around water - the outer layer is for convention, and therefore isn't a costume, the inner is for functionality, and therefore is. Moreover, it has a certain element of individuality to it - it's YOUR costume, which YOU designed.
A uniform, on the other hand, has the specific definition of "the official or distinctive clothes worn by members of a particular group", as in soldiers, cops, etc. So unless you're a member of a group of superheroes that dress all the same, as in the X-Men's original duds, I don't think 'uniform' really qualifies in the technical sense. I think superheroes who refer to their outfits as 'uniforms' are generally the types of people who prefer to think of themselves as a cop or a soldier. The Punisher, Wolverine and Captain America were all soldiers before they became superheroes, so it makes sense that they still think of themselves that way. Batman thinks of himself as something like a cop, I think, so 'uniform' works for him, too. It's more of a psychological thing than a matter of strict definition.


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