scans_daily | Another Rare Cass Moment: Wonder Woman- Paradise Found

From:

mommy

Secret and Empress! Whatever happened to Empress, anyhow?

From:

q99

Lesse, I think the last time she was seen was the Wonder Girl mini, where she was still friends with Cassie, and that's it.

Slightly before that, she was a magic user who showed up in the aftermath of Days of Vengeance/Infinite Crisis, still doing the hero thing.

So, basically, nothing bad happened but she hung around in the background.

From:

mommy

That's better than nothing, and definitely better than getting killed off or given horrible characterization. I do miss her and her family, though.

From:

q99

Yea. No actual *plots* after YJ, but a graceful retirement.

From:

auggie18

She was in an arch in Supergirl. Some dude kidnapped her baby-parents and forced her to fight Supergirl. Then they teamed up and beat up the dude who kidnapped Anita's baby-parents.

From:

q99

Neat. Kara Supergirl or Danvers?

From:

auggie18

Kara. It was after all of that "oh noes, I gots crystals growing out of me" stuff. I think it was right after Kara tried and failed to punch out cancer.

From:

q99

Thanks. I'll have to find that one :)

From:

espanolbot

She was in Final Crisis too. Where she got knocked out during the brief Dr Light/Mirror Master team-up.

From:

q99

Thing I like: Giving characters minor roles and cameos in other books.

Stuff like that might not be obvious, but it builds awareness and support for characters. That's one of the overlooked ways to build up interest.

From:

ian_karkull

Yeah, Phil's run on Wonder Woman had it's problems, but it's this kind of balls to the wall (literally) craziness that made it all worth it.

From:

q99

I find Diana's choice of field leaders interesting. Except for Wonder Girl (who I figure is in because of Circe familiarity? Or her leadership role in YJ, put her in charge of the young heroes), pretty sensible choices, pretty much who I'd pick too.

And the heroes-turned-animals are creepy! I think that's Animal Man as a donkey, Tedd's an actual bug, Batman's a snake with no arms (gotta give him something limited after all, or he'll still be too effective), Tempest is an actual dolphin... not sure some of the others.

From:

espanolbot

Cassie was running Young Justice at the time, that might be why she gets her own team, besides the connection to Diana I mean.

From:

lieut_kettch

Cassie's probably riding herd on the teen heroes. She was YJ's leader at the time, IIRC.

I miss this Cassie: emotionally stable, slightly dorky, and reasonably proportioned. NuCassie is just too over-the-top for me with her "take shit from no-one" 'tude and those dirigibles grafted to her chest.

From:

q99

Yea, though I find nuCassie better than AngstCassie. By late in Teen Titans, Cassie had changed a lot from this one.

From:

pyrotwilight

Not pictured but appears in said story Monster Girl from the Young Heroes (in Love). :D

From:

espanolbot

Kind of disappointed that, although this takes place after the Ultramarines thing, there is no Squire at the team-up. Oh well, probably busy back in the UK.

From:

auggie18

Holy crap, is that Gorgeous Gilly? Damn! AWESOME!

From:

bariman

She creeped me out when she showed up in Superboy's book and tried to marry him.

From:

crinos

I am now searching for Cass/Fluttershy art.

From:

q99

Right here

From:

espanolbot

Cass: You... are GOING TO LOVE MEEEEEE!!!!!!

From:

benuben

Ok. Once, I found some really idiotic article, where a guy explained all of us, why WW sucks. One of his stupidest arguments (I don't remember any o his arguments being smart, but whatever), was (I am not quoting exactly, but this is basicly what he said):

"When you say great Batman stories, you think of Year One or Dark Knight Returns. But when you say great WW stories, you think of.... ehh.. I cant think of any. And obviously, since I dont know any (even though I never asked anyone, who considers himself a fan of the character), it obviously means there arent any! WW suck, I am genious, blah blah blah..."

If anyone would ask me, what are WWs Year One, Long Halloween or All-Star Superman, one of the stories I would never forget to mention, is Paradise Found. It is great story and the moment in the end, where Diana is so close to abandon everything she was about is in my opinion, the greatest character moment she ever had.

BTW, the showdown with Circe in the end, perfectly shows, why I think WW killing Maxwell Lord is her own OMD.

From:

fifthie

When you say great Batman stories, you think of Year One or Dark Knight Returns.

You should tell your friend that after he's done talking about Year One and DKR, he should tell you about some of those great Batman comics he'd mentioned.

From:

icon_uk

Ba-dum-TISH! :)

From:

benuben

Eh... You don't like DKR?

From:

drexer

DKR is enjoyable, but like many of Miller's works its taste soured as all the assumptions the reader makes about its commentary and build as a message, receive a lot of uncomfortable subtext when you encompass it with its follow ups.

From:

icon_uk

BTW, the showdown with Circe in the end, perfectly shows, why I think WW killing Maxwell Lord is her own OMD.

Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark? (Icon_UK shows his age)

From:

lieut_kettch

Thanks a lot. If You Leave just started playing in my head, and it won't go away.

From:

espanolbot

Although this storyline is good, I'd personally put the Hiketeia as the one of the best, if not the actual best, Wonder Woman stories out there. Though her portrayal in New Frontier, even though she strictly wasn't one of the main cast, was also damn good as well.

From:

benuben

LMAO :-)

Wait... you are joking about New Frontier, right?

From:

espanolbot

What's wrong with her appearance in New Frontier?

From:

benuben

Aside from pretty much allowing murder of unarmed men? Okay, those bastards deserved it, but thats not, how Diana acts. Thats how the psycho from TV pilot acts. Thats how the femi-nazi warrior hypocrite from movie and comics by Geoff Jonhs acts.

I am ok with it, considering this isnt the Diana from main DCU, but her alternative version, living diffrent life in diffrent time. But her potrayal is hardly great, especialy considering she has been done like that so many times lately.

From:

espanolbot

Partially justified as she was both from an ancient warrior culture AND the only previous conflict that she'd been in was during WW2, where depending on where she was deployed she might not have seen that happen before.

From her logic, she was there to bring her idealised version of American democracy to people who were being oppressed, and to her that translated as freeing women from sexual slavery by the men who killed their male loved ones and burnt down their village, teaching them how to defend themselves so that it wouldn't happen again, and allowing them to revenge themselves against the enemy combatants who had wronged them to "reclaim their dignity", as she put it.

Her actions weren't meant to be right, see Superman's reaction, but to her they were justified. She'd helped the women reclaim some stablity in their lives, and effectively taught them to be Amazons.

Since she wasn't technically meant to be in the country in the first place (she was retrieving a downed US plane that crashed the wrong side of the border), she couldn't turn the men in to any authorities even if they weren't in the middle of a war at that point in time.

Diana's belief in the ideal of America, how they're there to free people who are being oppressed to improve their quality of life and bring peace, was something that she seemed to have picked up from the period that she arrived in Man's World in this continuity (as I said, she thought in WW2 so presumably she debuted here in 1942 or so like her comicbook version).

I mean, that idea is all well in good when you're fighting against the forces of fascism and genocide (WW2 was a lot more black and white compared to some more recent wars, although the methods on the "Good" side weren't always Right), ,but even in story there seemed to be a general embarassment about just how fervent Diana was.

But while she was willing to support the American Dream wholeheartedly, when the situation became more morally grey, with the War in Southeast Asia not being a war of peace like the previous one she got involved in, but a war of differing ideologies, she chose to speak out against it. It was one thing to get involved with the village, as that was a legitimate case of Evil being done that she had to stop, but she couldn't legitimately continue her mission to bring peace to the world if her involvement just continued wars that otherwise are just wars for the sake of war.

Her decision to give her a medal, honourary citizenship and an unofficial deportation order back to Paradise Island when she decided to publicly give her opinion about Vietnam etc. was what lead to her realising that she was being used more as a propaganda tool for America than the administration using her message of peace to stop wars against those that threaten the ideals she had adopted.

This is probably why, in the epilogue, she decides to change the world by taking up teaching children as opposed to getting involved in armed conflicts, as she had come to the conclusion that those would be better, more genuine ways to bring about world peace instead of just perpetuating the cycle of warfare.

It's not as direct as Superman publically saying that he'll be working to help mankind from now on, instead of specifically for the US government, but just as with Batman's move from his Golden Age persona to his Silver Age one, but Diana undergoing character development, reevaluating her mission, and deciding on a different gentler, kinder solution to her goal.

So it isn't Diana being a psychopath and a hypocrite, it was her seeing evil, stopping it via her Amazon upbringing, and then changing her method from bringing about peace through physically fighting for it, to bringing about peace through love and teaching. A move from her punching metaphorical Nazis to saving the world, to her more recent interpretation as a diplomat, teacher and author.

No hypocrisy, just character development.

From:

benuben

Eh, did you miss the part, where I said I am ok, with her potrayal in New Frontier?

I am too lazy to explain Killing Max. Yeah, I know, what the hell am I doing on this web then? Anyway, this guy did a review of the issue (well, more like a scene, but he was really annoyed by the whole thing), which pretty much covers most of what I can say about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TurL04mg6Fw

The problem is, the movie is supposed to be ADAPTATION. If you want to developt or change comic character to be less interesting, do it in comics.

And yes, it is hypocrisy. She says how evil men are, when she and amazons are openly enjoying fighting, killing, and threats everyone else like shit. She isnt feminist, shes the same, boring, stereo-typical angryfuck like all greek heroes. And dont anyone try to tell me I am being sexist here. Just because shes a woman, doesnt excuse her from acting like an angry bastard.

You are talking about Diana, like if she was character, that was just created, or who is being created, and we are arguing about what kind of person she is going to be. The problem is, we already know her character. Diana is supposed to be loving, wise, "first talking, then fighting" pacifist. This isnt development (if it is, its a bad one), or diffrent take on the character, this is changing her, in to steoreotypical Rambo chick.

Yeah, I posted this coment twice. What do you want? You both say pretty much the same thing and I cant respond to you both with one coment (atleast I think, I am still not 100% familiar with this website). Anyway, I respect your opinion, and I think I get your point, but I just dont see it like you do. Sorry if I am being too harsh.

From:

benuben

BTW, I havent read your coment properly. I am sorry for that. I still stand behind all of my points about the movie and Maxwell Lord, but I didnt know you have been talking so much about her potrayal in New Frontier. Well, Ive only seens the movie version and it was a long time ago, so I dont remember some of the things you said. My fault. Sorry.

From:

espanolbot

My advice is to read the book, they had to cut out a LOT to fit in in the 90 minute or so running time, so a lot of stuff like character development etc. was lost in the process.

The film's good, but the book is far, far better.

Also, it's rude to respond without reading my post first.

Posted to my blog, editted and with the relevant pages from the comic to illustrate my point.
http://espanolbot.blogspot.com/2012/01/is-new-frontiers-wonder-woman-hypocrite.html

From:

drexer

Many superhero portrayals have varied and adapted themselves across the times, and especially portrayals in WW2 such as Captain America and others have not had any qualm whatsoever about killing. New Frontier was built as a story that fit within those time slots and sociological expectations, so it was very precisely put that WW attitude there, because that would be her reflection across that same time period.

The same was not done with Batman and Superman because the character of the first is deeply ingrained with his moral code despite its era and the second has always lived with the paradigm of his power being far too much to allow himself to relax up to the point of killing someone.

Wonder Woman on the other hand is a force of social and adaptive change, and alongside that, as a reflection of humanity on the decision of making hard and difficult choices. That's why killing Maxwell Lord was not an awful moment for WW because of the kill(because she was effectively the only hero who could take that action in plain conscience of its repercussions and face its fallout with her head held high), but because of how it was treated alongside the rest of the story and the universe. Not to mention the storyline setup.

Her kills on New Frontier are a product of all of this and are built alongside a time where the participation of women in the war also gave rise to a great part of the fight for women's rights. It's as much a individual moment as a greater social movement, of feminism raising its head and saying "we've reclaimed our homes, our rights and our dignity. We won't bow down or give up any more because we don't have that luxury; just as you have not the luxury of coming here and telling us what we should do when you let so many horrible things happen behind you".

From:

benuben

Eh, did you miss the part, where I said I am ok, with her potrayal in New Frontier?

I am too lazy to explain Killing Max. Yeah, I know, what the hell am I doing on this web then? Anyway, this guy did a review of the issue (well, more like a scene, but he was really annoyed by the whole thing), which pretty much covers most of what I can say about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TurL04mg6Fw

You are talking about Diana, like if she was character, that was just created, or who is being created, and we are arguing about what kind of person she is going to be. The problem is, we already know her character. Diana is supposed to be loving, wise, "first talking, then fighting" pacifist. This isnt delopment, or diffrent take on the character, this is changing her, in to steoreotypical Rambo chick.

From:

espanolbot

She wasn't a stereotypical Rambo chick. Read the book.

From:

korvar

The problem I have with The Hideteia is it requires both Wonder Woman and Batman to grab on to the Idiot Ball and hold on tight.

From:

espanolbot

I took it more as both being restricted by their mindsets. Wonder Woman had to honour the Hiketeia because it's part of her religion, and once it gives her the opportunity to hear why the woman being pursued by Batman is being pursued by him, it makes her more sympathetic to her side of the story.

Batman, meanwhile, is restricted by his mindset that murder is murder, and if you commit not just one but SEVERAL and then run from the police, then you deserve to be punished for it. Like Diana, he eventually found out the reason why the woman killed those people (on his own, as he's a detective and looked into the why as opposed to the who and how) he was a lot more sympathetic, but that didn't change his mind as she was STILL a multiple murderer who showed no real signs of remorse.

This is also why he was so down on Huntress for all those years, while he gave a free pass to Selina over her shooting Black Mask in the face. Both killed terrible people, but while Helena did it in a calculated way and felt no remorse over it, Selina killed one person who had repeatedly targeted her and her loved ones before she decided that killing him was the only option left, and then felt bad about it.

One murder, you get a pass if the victims are horrible people or if you were mindcontrolled (hence why he didn't instantly exile Cass when he found out she'd killed someone as a child). Keep doing it, and he'll try to bring the hammer down on you, particularly if you're doing it in his city.

From:

korvar

Yeah, but he knew where she was, that she wasn't going anywhere, and for some (idiot ball) reason wouldn't just [i]tell[/i] Wonder Woman - who he claimed as a friend - what the hell was going on. Any plot that would fall apart for the lack of two seconds of dialogue has problems.

Both Batman and Wonder Woman are people who go out of their way to find smart ways out of conflicts. They had to be stupid in order for the fight to happen, so Greg Ruka could get the dominatrix shot of Batman under Wonder Woman's heel.

From:

drexer

It's this one, right?

Every time I re-encounter this post I just face-palm. It's just so idiotic... >_>

From:

drexer

Ok, and now I took the error of reading the comments for once. Goddamn it, I need a drink.

From:

benuben

Wait.. That article is from topless Robot?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

My god, I loved that blog! Now I cant look at his Transformers articles, without thinking about this abomination.

And I just LOVE the lesbian coment. My god, I almost find Superboy Prime relatable after this.

From:

icon_uk

I've always meant to post from this "all-girls" story as it has some great moments, and nice to see some cameos.

From:

werehawk

This is a great story. Unfortunately, I've only been able to track down WW 174, where these scans are from. Would you be able to post any scans of WW 175? I especially am interested in any pages with Jade in them. Its one of her few appearances I don't have.

Thanks!

From:

gerardotejada

Aww! She is just like his daddy!
Remember when Batman/bruce said he always dusapeared because he was afraid to say goodbye? I just love the waynes, from Alfred to Damian and earth2 Helena.

Is so beautifull to see the whole wonder gang together! Wonder Woman & Aquaman Lore need more love, you got to respect their Greek Myths background

S	M	T	W	T	F	S
1	2	3	4	5	6	7
8	9	10	11	12	13	14
15	16	17	18	19	20	21
22	23	24	25	26	27	28
29	30	31

Bringing the crack since December 2003

Another Rare Cass Moment: Wonder Woman- Paradise Found

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