Huntress #5 Preview

[aeka]

Looks like this issue will be tonnes better than the last, and Helena sheds more light on her upbringing.

I’m led to believe now, Earth-2 Batman was just like his original Golden Age version, who used to kill people. I also think she’s being more Selina-like in her approach to fighting crime. Maybe Earth-2 Selina was the post-Crisis Selina? I’m starting to increasingly believe this is *very* likely.

From DC's Source:



Damn this is too exciting. This, plus Harley's Quinn's origin coming out this week? Wednesday please come fast!!!! XP

Comments

[darkknightjrk]

That first page with the Italian fortress inside Helena's silhouette is flippin' GORGEOUS.

Also, it's funny that we probably get the biggest hint about her origins after it was officially revealed via the writer.

I'm not sure if I buy your theory on her dad/their Batman being the kind that killed, though. I won't say it's completely impossible, but the one line we hear about her dad doesn't strike me that way.

[shadowpsykie]

yeah me too, i don't see this scene as = batman is willing to kill. cause massive amounts of property damager, yes. not saying its unlikley... but Helena did expressly say Property Damage.

[aeka]

I was thinking more in terms of behaviour rather than anything she's explicitly said or confirmed. For example if you look at Helena's treatment of criminals in this mini and compare that to the way Batman handled criminals in the 1930s Detective Comics in particular, you will notice they're very similar if not out right in par with one another. An excellent case in point? Helena's complete apathy for the fates of the guys Giuseppe offed in the first issue of the mini vs Batman's "a fitting end for their kind" mentality for criminals who either fell to their deaths or were deliberately killed.

Then again, it is also just possible she gets this mentality from her mother who was also a *bit* more willing to go the limits for her goals and didn't have any qualms about hurting criminals who deliberately hurt innocent people. Or she got this from both. Either way, Earth-2 BatCat sound like two very interesting people if the way Helena conducts herself is any indication.

[darkknightjrk]

I can see that line of reasoning, sure. I just think that if she did have Golden Age Batman as her dad, she would have been willing to actually kill the thugs fighting her. I mean, there were many instances in the Golden Age where both Batman AND Robin were willing to kill the thugs to make a point.

[aeka]

She did blow up two freighters in the first two issues with live crew still on board, the second being more deliberate than the first. I would definitely count that second time as her "trying to make her point" to Moretti.

Speaking of which, who the hell killed Moretti? Here Helena confirms that he's dead, so either the girls killed him (which I find highly unlikely since they feared this guy), or someone from the Italian police did...especially if you consider he was friends with them in the first place? :/

[shadowpsykie]

(which I find highly unlikely since they feared this guy),

ummm Helena clearly said "I leave this bastard at your mercy" i think it is safe to assume that they did in fact kill him. or tied him up and threw him over board andlet god handle it.

the police could have killed him too, but i think the stronger implication is the women did.

blowing up a ship is no gaurantee of killing everyone or anyone on board. they could have bailed, it could have caused structual damage only... infact, i think the frieghter was said to be empty except for the girls and the skelenton crew, the point was to take the ships out of comission not the people on board necissarily

[aeka]

the police could have killed him too, but i think the stronger implication is the women did.

I would believe this more if they were actually shown to be angry at Moretti for the way that he treated them vs looking helpless even when Helena left Moretti "at [their] mercy." She could've inspired them to be stronger, sure, but I doubt they would have actually killed him. So the cops offing him makes more sense to me since the cops weren't shown to be honest cops if they were affiliated with him and the Kufra chairman.

blowing up a ship is no gaurantee of killing everyone or anyone on board.

Are you seriously making this argument? :/ If you go back and look at the school bus pages on #2, you'll see that there are guys actively running onboard the ship just as it goes "boom" and you see Helena driving away with a smile on her face. There's also the fact that she snapped at a a guy for firing a gun near a tanker as it could "cause an explosion."

[shadowpsykie]

Are you seriously making this argument? :/ If you go back and look at the school bus pages on #2, you'll see that there are guys actively running onboard the ship just as it goes "boom" and you see Helena driving away with a smile on her face. There's also the fact that she snapped at a a guy for firing a gun near a tanker as it could "cause an explosion."

o_o i admit its been a while since i read those issues, but how "explody" did the ship get? to me, unless there are bodies floating in the sea, or it is expressly stated "At least those men won't be hurting any more women ever again." then i concider most if not all to have survived.

I would believe this more if they were actually shown to be angry at Moretti for the way that he treated them vs looking helpless even when Helena left Moretti "at [their] mercy." She could've inspired them to be stronger, sure, but I doubt they would have actually killed him. So the cops offing him makes more sense to me since the cops weren't shown to be honest cops if they were affiliated with him and the Kufra chairman.

the way i see it, if Moretti saw that they still feared him, and helena was now gone, i see no reason for him not to reassert his dominance over the women... and if he still feared reprisal from Helena, the women would most likely take advantage of the situation. i see one woman looking surprised, at Helena, another one who's face seems impassive. Both looking at Helena, not looking at Moretti at all. so thier "shock" is being aimed at Helena, who just kicked the shit out of the man they were afraid of... they look more in awe of Helena, than in fear of a now basically powerless Moretti. and there is a third woman who's face we can't even see for all we know she is grining in satisfaction....

the point is, yes, the police could have killed him.... but the women (who have recieved a great many abuses from and because of this man) are as likely as the police are.

[aeka]

i admit its been a while since i read those issues, but how "explody" did the ship get? to me, unless there are bodies floating in the sea, or it is expressly stated "At least those men won't be hurting any more women ever again." then i concider most if not all to have survived.

A ship full of guns for cargo (and thereby presence of gunpowder), plus a tank full of petrol, plus an exploding device and you mean to tell me that's not enough to set the whole ship ablaze? Hell, I'd argue it'd even sink the ship. How would that not result in any fatalities? o.O

I think you're trying to find flaws where there aren't any, mate. Bottom line is gunpowder + petrol + detonating device = ship goes boom! And when boom happens, heat and energy get released and things disintegrate within radius of the actual explosion, including human bodies. The more explosive/flammable devices that are present, the bigger the boom that results. That's explosives work. o.O

[shadowpsykie]

*sigh*.....

[darkknightjrk]

Is that a bored sigh or a wistful sigh? :P

[shadowpsykie]

wistful.... i love this book. and i love Huntress. But i miss Helena Betinelli.... i have nothing against Helena Wayne (but this Helena Wayne seems different even than the Previous one, so essentially this is a third, new character). the thing is i love this series, but loving this series only reminds me this is not the Huntress i loved... despite still loving this huntress and this series.... im a little confused.... and then i start thinking to that first scene they told us about in World's Finest where they have Helena BURNING her Helena Bertinelli passport.... and it hurts more... i know stupid... but still

[aeka]

but this Helena Wayne seems different even than the Previous one, so essentially this is a third, new character

To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone would expect a more modern Helena Wayne to be just like her Bronze Age incarnation when none of the characters from that era remained the same after the first Crisis. Pretty much almost everyone in the Bat-family was made darker and more psychologically complex than their pre-Crisis incarnations. Even the New 52 Barbara Gordon doesn't feel like she went back to her Silver/Bronze personality despite stepping back into the role of Batgirl and having the roughly same views about crime-fighting that she's had in every incarnation.

the thing is i love this series, but loving this series only reminds me this is not the Huntress i loved...

Welcome to the club. This is exactly how I felt about DC offing a great character like Helena Wayne and replacing her with another version of her that was completely unrecognisable. While I came to like Helena Bertinelli, it honestly would've made much more sense to simply make her a separate character from Wayne instead of simply treating her as the rebooted origin for the original Helena. The characterisation differed greatly between the two versions, and all the allusions they made to Helena Wayne only served to remind me of the fact that Huntress no longer existed as her.

TL;DR, yeah I know how you feel. :(

[shadowpsykie]

To be honest, I'm not sure why anyone would expect a more modern Helena Wayne to be just like her Bronze Age incarnation when none of the characters from that era remained the same after the first Crisis. Pretty much almost everyone in the Bat-family was made darker and more psychologically complex than their pre-Crisis incarnations. Even the New 52 Barbara Gordon doesn't feel like she went back to her Silver/Bronze personality despite stepping back into the role of Batgirl and having the roughly same views about crime-fighting that she's had in every incarnation.

No but unless Earth 2 is dramatically different, Earth 2 is generally seen as the "lighter world" where "heroes were heroes," or something like that. which is why there is a justice Society, in stead of LEAGUE. The Term Society, leads to the implication that the heroes were more of a social, or societal influence. ie, in this world Earth-1, the Heroes are for the most part either feared, or looked upon with a wary eye. where as earth 2 the heroes are more readily embraced and accepted.

[aeka]

Where did you get the impression that Earth-2 was supposed to be the "lighter of the two worlds?" For starters, the pre-Crisis Earth-1 was never depicted as being the "darker" of the two worlds, and all the pre-Crisis stories specified that "Earth-2 was just like Earth-1 in many ways," but differed only in the sense that heroes appeared much earlier on Earth-2 and that the heroes aged and had children.

I think you're confusing the events of Infinite Crisis (which is supposed to be treated as a sequel to the events Crisis on Infinite Earths) with those of the actual pre-Crisis continuity which are not the same thing. On that much I can guarantee.

[shobogan]

I'm not as attached to Wayne as I am Bertinelli, but I'm still sad about Pre-Crisis Kara. And Jason, for that matter - I adore the new Jason but I miss the old one, too. So basically, yeah, I feel you.

I will just never understand erasing characters.

[aeka]

Truthfully, nothing DC ever does for these reboots ever makes sense to me, and even less so when they get rid of popular characters. Their rationale each time is that they get rid of anything pertaining to the 'old continuity' in order to be able to tell fresh new stories that they think will draw in a new audience.

In Helena's case, she was the one out of the three Earth-2 legacy children (the other two being Fury and Power Girl) that was most screwed by the first reboot. Not only was she the only of the three legacy children to be killed for convenience, but even when they did revive her, DC completely changed everything about her to the point where she was unrecognisable to the pre-Crisis fans. It's enough say, they essentially created a *new* character despite the intention that Bertinelli was meant to be the rebooted origin for Helena rather than another Huntress all together. It's weird, but's how they justify these changes. :/

[shobogan]

I understand the idea behind the first Crisis, at least, but some parts of the execution - yeah. And I still don't understand why the multiverse had to be destroyed. It doesn't have to be confusing!

It's the same thing that happened with Jason, really - they're both Robin, they're both Jason Todd, but they have pretty much nothing else in common. Not their backstory, not their personality, not their relationships. And I'm really conflicted about it, because - I probably love the second Jason more? But I hate that the first one never happened.

Helena Bertinelli is my Huntress, but I wish she hadn't come at the expense of Helena Wayne. And now I wish we hadn't got this Helena at the expense of her and -

Dammit, DC, just stop it.

[aeka]

I understand the idea behind the first Crisis, at least, but some parts of the execution - yeah. And I still don't understand why the multiverse had to be destroyed. It doesn't have to be confusing!

Originally the plan was to keep both Earth-1 and Earth-2 with Huntress even getting a mini after the Crisis, but changed plans at the last minute.

Helena Bertinelli is my Huntress, but I wish she hadn't come at the expense of Helena Wayne. And now I wish we hadn't got this Helena at the expense of her and - Dammit, DC, just stop it.

Yeah the whole retconning-and-later-reinstating-and-later-retconning of origins is one of the things that annoys me about DC reboots. Personally I felt Wayne and Bertinelli should've been separate characters from the get-go since there's something equally compelling about having an Italian mafia princess becoming a heroine, just as having a daughter of Batman and Catwoman is. Both origins have great potential for great storytelling, plus could even a team-up between the two could lead to interesting places.

[shobogan]

Ooh, that would have been cool.

Personally I felt Wayne and Bertinelli should've been separate characters from the get-go since there's something equally compelling about having an Italian mafia princess becoming a heroine, just as having a daughter of Batman and Catwoman is. Both origins have great potential for great storytelling, plus could even a team-up between the two could lead to interesting places.

Yeah, there really isn't any reason for them not to be, and Bertinelli is a whole, intriguing character in her own right. Also I'd feel less weird shipping her with Selina.

From the scans I've seen, the one in the current mini seems like a combination of the two - kind of like Helena Kyle in the BoP tv series.

[eyz]

I dunno... I'm still imagining this new Earth 2's going to be our pre-Flashpoint DCU.
I mean, isn't that Earth 2's role, to be the home of the DCUniverse that just go discarded?

[aeka]

I mean, isn't that Earth 2's role, to be the home of the DCUniverse that just go discarded?

Not really since Earth-2, aside from having its own Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, has always had its own set of heroes, and only one superhero team, the Justice Society. Originally Earth-2 was introduced in the 1960s as a way to both explain why the core three never aged, and what happened to other heroes.

At best we might see most if not all of the pre-Flashpoint Justice Society members (including the original Black Canary) all placed on Earth-2, but I doubt we'll see any other duplicates aside from the trinity and associated characters. James Robinson has said numerous times in interviews that this will be a brand new Earth-2 with a brand new history.