aeka: (Power Girl [coffee]:)
[personal profile] aeka posting in [community profile] scans_daily
So, first things first, Kevin Maguire's variant cover for WF #1:

Reload Image

At least Peege looks recognisable as Peege here even in that rubbish thing they call a costume. Helena on the other hand looks very oddly drawn. I can't decide if it's her posturing, the fact that her arms and legs are disproportionately drawn, or a combination of the two things

From George Perez, WF #3:

Reload Image

While I love the details of George Perez's art, I can't help but to think this is the second cover I've seen where Power Girl is shown being outpowered by something while Helena's just hanging about looking on.

Also is it just me or is Perez unable to keep Helena's costume design consistent? Sometimes she has the lines coming down from her costume's cross, other times not. Sometimes her boots and gloves are black, other times purple (or in this case they look blueish/grayish). Her boots seem to constantly shift between normal looking boots that you'd buy at a shopping mall (Perez), other times they look like the kind of boots designed for crushing (Marcus To, Guillem March, Kevin Maguire), and her gloves seem to lack knuckles on Perez's art, whereas she has them when everyone else draws her. Her mask also lacks the ummm..."ear vents?" on Perez's art, whereas she usually has them. Of course, this could just be me being detail-oriented and a stickler for consistency.

I think by far, out of all the artists who have drawn Helena (and Kara for one page) the best in this reboot has been Marcus To. Somehow I think he could even make Power Girl's costume *work* even with that terrible disproportionate design she has. Sigh. *Wishes Marcus To was still the artist for this book.*

In other news, James Robinson had this to say about Earth-2 Batman's relationship with Helena:

IGN: Easy enough. [laughs] Much has been made about the series incorporating the death of Lois Lane as a focal point for Superman and that Wonder Woman is the last of the Amazons, but things are more ambiguous in terms of the details we know about Batman. Can you speak to what makes this version of the character different than the one we know?

Robinson: Again, I don’t want to say too much. I know I’ve been criticized for that, but I am resolute. I just don’t want too much to go out until the book comes out. But this is what I will say: Batman, on this world, is a father. He’s got a responsibility and love in his heart, which makes him a different kind of Batman. He’s just as driven, but part of what he’s trying to do is imbue his offspring with his abilities. He’s not just passing on his talents, he’s also passing on his love for his daughter.”

Ummm...I hope James is aware that the main DCU Batman is *also* a father who loves all of his kids equally as well, unless he's describing the difference in terms of E2 Bruce actually being a part of Helena's life and upbringing since Day 1 of her life, whereas Damian just showed up one day and suddenly main DCU Batman has a ten-year-old son. Also from all that I've heard so far, it sounds like E2 Bruce had intended to raise Helena to be the next Batman, whereas main DCU Bruce sees Damian as a kid he has to repair.

Date: 2012-04-05 03:04 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize

I really think Robinson had a mindslip there and completely forgot Damian exists. I can't believe IGN didn't bring that up and ask him to clarify. That's kind of weak journalism.

Date: 2012-04-05 08:36 pm (UTC)
salinea: (Default)
From: [personal profile] salinea
and Dick, and the others as well even if he only got them later.

An adoptive father isn't any less of a father.

Date: 2012-04-05 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
For some reason I can't help seeig PG's symbol as a hammer-and-sickle. I know that's not what it is, but it throws me off.

Date: 2012-04-05 03:12 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Whilst I like Robinson's work (usually) anyone who says Bruce hasn't been a father since the day Dick arrived at Wayne Manor onwards, has clearly not been reading the books for the past several decades.

Date: 2012-04-05 03:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] abriel
Batman, on this world, is a father.

And he wasn't a father before, with his two adopted sons (Dick and Tim), one adopted daughter (Cass), one biological son (Damian), and one legal ward that he was taking care of like a son (Jason)? Could have fooled me.

Also Peege's new costume is still ugly.

Date: 2012-04-05 05:26 pm (UTC)
pyrotwilight: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pyrotwilight
Well actually Jason was adopted as well I believe but Dick wasn't until much later since I think Bruce figured it was obvious without adopting Dick that he was his new dad, sort of, and Jason needed the extra obvious confirmation from Bruce.

Date: 2012-04-09 02:13 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
Was Morrison who wrote "He is as obsesed with Family as He is with figthing crime"?

As I see Grant Morrison was the one who expanded the concept of "batman is not alone" thing, the only other comic I remember who portraited Bruce as a "father" was in Batgirl (even if Cass was adopted much later) and Catwoman (with little Helena).

In the Silver Age there was kind of Father Relationship with Dick, but never off the cliche stereotype.

I begin writing this post thinking the "Father Thing" was developed by Morrison but with all the above examples I have to admit, Robinson doesnt have any excuses, he need to catch up fast.

PD: #ShamelessFreeAdvertising# Oh god I love Morrison´s Run on Batman, Im re reading Batman Inc, It was the best thing to happend to the Bathman Mythos since No Man´s Land, a cool game changer and has a nice "happy" bruce wayne #ShamelessFreeAdvertising#

Date: 2012-04-05 03:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Is it terrible of me that with Maguire's art, it makes it look like Peeg has more of the...tracts of land that she had Pre-reboot and it makes me happy? I mean, like it or not, that is one of her more defining features--it'd be like Dick not having a great ass.

As for the costume...the kinda half symbol thing looks interesting in theory, but the actual symbol looks kinda goofy. If they had the symbol from the first iteration of this costume on this, it could look kinda cool. Plus it could still use some more blue or gold to break up all the white.

Date: 2012-04-05 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Not to mention that it would stand out more if more artists didn't draw ALL their characters with massive mammories. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a semi-heterosexual male who can appreciate some rather large bosoms, but yeesh, let's have some variety!

Date: 2012-04-05 04:14 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
True, true.

You know what really bothers me about Waller in the DCnU? The weight thing doesn't bother me so much (to be fair, that's probably the easiest thing to change), but after seeing Amanda Waller in the Green Lantern movie, I'd much rather see her in that role--the US government's leading scientist when it comes to alien life, probably not trusting of the League. She would make a great foil to the new Steve Trevor. But no--we have to keep her as the same semi-sociopathic bore who likes putting bombs in criminals heads and make them do shit for her.

Date: 2012-04-09 02:29 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
I dont know, I expect writers take time to think how the characters deal with their bodies, because they are part of their identities (for example the first Atom it comes to mind).

For example with Kara I was always hoping that someone understood her relationship with her body, like, I dont know, how big breasts are a real problem to girls? because It can be uncomfortable, everybody stares, other girls are mean to you, I dont really know, but something like that.

And Amanda Waller was an example of why this reboot sucks so much. The fact that even my most precious Batwoman series is happening in the same universe as that "Waller" abomination sickens me.

Date: 2012-04-05 05:04 pm (UTC)
mullon: (Jade Curtiss)
From: [personal profile] mullon
That looks less bad than the last PG outfit we were shown, but I still miss her old costume.

Date: 2012-04-09 02:35 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
the bathing suit had a vintage feel, the Capitan Marvel kind of Cape gave her a classy look and the blue boots and gloves gave her the Power vibe she needed for beign Power Girl, a thing that was also acentuated by her short hair look.

The boob window I think was throw there as both as fanservice and a way so the breast can "breath", because otherwise It seems too thight, and because fanservice is cool.

Date: 2012-04-10 01:40 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
So her breasts can breathe?? Um. Breasts don't work that way.

Date: 2012-04-10 02:35 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
LOL is a fixed phrase, it means something like leting lose, relax presure. Not like "let them hang" or anything, hahaha.

I translate It the best I can, almost literaly. I have four sistera and five cousins, Im sorrounded by complains about bras. So i dont know how they work xD but I know is a pain to deal with them as they are a sensitive area and some time the straps hurt you and stuff.

Date: 2012-04-10 11:06 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
A boob window still doesn't work that way.

Date: 2012-04-10 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
Ha, there you got me, the only person that would use a boob window is lady gaga.

I was just guessing, but you have to admit there is no one with deep experience in boob window science

Date: 2012-04-05 05:13 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
It's Super Svetlana Zhurova!

Date: 2012-04-05 05:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Bleeding Cool just pulled a funny concerning the cover to #3--"Damn, someone REALLY wanted that boob window back!" :D

Date: 2012-04-05 05:39 pm (UTC)
junipepper: (jumplines)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
Every time I see any version of nU!Peege's costume, I like it less.

Date: 2012-04-05 06:54 pm (UTC)
leikomgwtfbbq: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq
I would like the design of PG's new costume a lot more if her "P" symbol was centered. It just looks weird when it's hanging over only one side of her chest.

It's kind of growing on me (although I like the long-sleeve-leotard-boots-and-cape outfit the best, and probably always will, because it's a nice, simple costume) but that one thing still bugs the hell out of me.

Date: 2012-04-05 07:21 pm (UTC)
leikomgwtfbbq: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq
I don't think I've ever seen another superhero with a symbol on only one side of their costume! It's either dead-center, or they don't have a symbol at all.

Date: 2012-04-05 07:29 pm (UTC)
leikomgwtfbbq: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq
I read a lot of them and I have an interest in cool costumes, so I would've noticed such a weirdly off-center thing if I'd seen it before!

(Speaking of PG, I wish they would bring back Amanda Conner. She's probably my favorite comic artist--along with Nicola Scott--and she draws PG the best!)

Date: 2012-04-05 07:49 pm (UTC)
leikomgwtfbbq: (Hmm....)
From: [personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq
Well, at least that one just looks like it's a small, stylish badge or patch, rather than the giant thing taking up just one quarter of PG's torso XD

I probably won't be picking it up, either. I like that Earth-2 was the comparatively lighter and happier-ever-after world, and I think we've got enough grimdark on the main world right now, thanks!

Date: 2012-04-05 08:20 pm (UTC)
leikomgwtfbbq: (OH SHI-)
From: [personal profile] leikomgwtfbbq
It's the whole damn package that bothers me. Bleh to all of it.

Isn't the point of alternate worlds that they're supposed to be... like... alternates to the main world? Not "the same thing, with the same atmosphere, but there are some other people dead"?


Date: 2012-04-09 02:58 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
women in refrigerators is an acceptable plot for any storie if is throwed in a good way, What was Ofelia in Hamlet but a WIR? Gaiman did a parody of WIR with Wanda in A game of you (this are the GOOD examples).

I think we are now more self aware because of late scandals, but anyway the "killing off characters" is been around forever, and you cant kill a popular character, (that is a character that sells well) so you kill B lists or C lists, and because male heroes sell better, then the one down is going to be a woman.

And It works like a charm Killing Joke? bam a Hit! Identity Crisis? bam best seller!, etc. Even the Original Supergirl´s death was a hit.

The only trick is that you cant kill a relevant hero in canon continuity, only If at the time said hero is not doing much to help the image an the sells of the company.

The cheapest trick is to create an expendable character, It is disgusting and loathed by everyone but the writer then can kill It without asking, and Is always a girlfriend. This is the only one the writers seem to really despise as sexist and cheap but not the other ones.

It doesnt mean Robinson is going to start throwing one wir after another just because he aknowledges It is an acceptable plot device to advance a story.... Well thats what I hope

Re: Mod Note

Date: 2012-04-09 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
First I never meant to equate "female" with "expendable" but "expendable" with "girlfriend", and would be ridiculous to think female characters equal girlfriends, Amanda Waller is an example of a civil female not playing the "girlfriend" part, so It was Renee Montoya before beign the Question, Sarah Bordeaux is another example, etc.

Second, I admited that was sexist and mysogenistic, I meant to say the same as you told me.

Third, It is an acceptable plot device, It can be good or bad. I mean that as any plot device It is a tool for a bigger structure. It can disrespect and degrade but thats not Its only use. I wont even question the morality of fictions and cultural works and how affects real life, or if It is the other way round. Just that It is, to every light, a plot device along many others.

So, nor did I justify It but merely wanted to explain It, nor did I sugests Female are expendable but that token characters that are females may be for sexist reasons. Nor did I justify certain deaths (as now that I read my post I see It could be seen that way) but gave them as an example to predict others.

It wasnt my intention to normalise anything more than an speculative set of rules. It is dificult to explain myself when Im not native speaker and, most important, Im not even there/here to clarify step by step.

It feels weird after I read my previous post, It wasnt meant to be too serious, not be taken as a jsutification but more as a rant to the money making the ideological decitions, and that I dont think It is the case everytime. And that for me WIR should not be an standar for judging solely by Itself

Mod Note

Date: 2012-04-10 01:42 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Mod mask!)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
This thread has been frozen while the mods discuss it.


Date: 2012-04-09 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gerardotejada
"And It works like a charm Killing Joke? bam a Hit! Identity Crisis? bam best seller!" read with annoyance.

"The only trick is that you cant kill a relevant hero in canon continuity, only If at the time said hero is not doing much to help the image an the sells of the company." Killing Joke rule.

"The cheapest trick is to create an expendable character, It is disgusting and loathed by everyone but the writer then can kill It without asking, and Is always a girlfriend. This is the only one the writers seem to really despise as sexist and cheap but not the other ones."

I repeat, that is BAD and happens in BAD comics wich are BAD. Unless It is a greek tragedy, or It is a background character.

Mmm... what more, oh yeah, publishers´s ideas are the ones with less risk and high dollars. And I am sure there are male bodies, no need to throw a monopoly so early.

(frozen) Mod Note: Thread Freeze

Date: 2012-04-10 01:43 am (UTC)
benicio127: (Mod mask!)
From: [personal profile] benicio127
This comment has been frozen while the mods discuss it.

Date: 2012-04-05 11:48 pm (UTC)
thormonger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thormonger
Kyle Rayner and Guy Gardner come to mind.

Date: 2012-04-06 03:14 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jfurioso
Robin has always sported an off-center logo.

Date: 2012-04-05 08:53 pm (UTC)
betaraybetty: mini bill (minibill)
From: [personal profile] betaraybetty
I... have lots of feelings about this... I just don't know what they are yet :/
It does look very space-suit-y, though, which is fitting for an alien...?
But it looks even harder to get into than any other costume. At least Helena can take pieces of hers off. The great white bodyglove with built-in boots seems awkward for someone who needs to change quickly. But it does look very streamlined and spacey, so... points for that?

Date: 2012-04-06 04:06 am (UTC)
auggie18: (pg)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
By the by, I love your name/icon.

Date: 2012-04-06 06:49 am (UTC)
betaraybetty: (Default)
From: [personal profile] betaraybetty
Ah, but you did this to me.
I've been stealthy for months, but now my cover is blown. :|

Date: 2012-04-06 03:12 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
Le gasp! My real life and my internet life are colliding! WHOOOOOOOA!

Date: 2012-04-06 06:48 am (UTC)
lascoden: Anarky (Default)
From: [personal profile] lascoden
Maybe it's like Superman's new costume, and it materializes over her?

Date: 2012-04-06 06:51 am (UTC)
betaraybetty: (Default)
From: [personal profile] betaraybetty
Haha, maybe. Magical technology solves everything!


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