Worlds' Finest #3 Cover + #1 Variant + James Robinson Commentary

[aeka]

So, first things first, Kevin Maguire's variant cover for WF #1:



At least Peege looks recognisable as Peege here even in that rubbish thing they call a costume. Helena on the other hand looks very oddly drawn. I can't decide if it's her posturing, the fact that her arms and legs are disproportionately drawn, or a combination of the two things

From George Perez, WF #3:



While I love the details of George Perez's art, I can't help but to think this is the second cover I've seen where Power Girl is shown being outpowered by something while Helena's just hanging about looking on.

Also is it just me or is Perez unable to keep Helena's costume design consistent? Sometimes she has the lines coming down from her costume's cross, other times not. Sometimes her boots and gloves are black, other times purple (or in this case they look blueish/grayish). Her boots seem to constantly shift between normal looking boots that you'd buy at a shopping mall (Perez), other times they look like the kind of boots designed for crushing (Marcus To, Guillem March, Kevin Maguire), and her gloves seem to lack knuckles on Perez's art, whereas she has them when everyone else draws her. Her mask also lacks the ummm..."ear vents?" on Perez's art, whereas she usually has them. Of course, this could just be me being detail-oriented and a stickler for consistency.

I think by far, out of all the artists who have drawn Helena (and Kara for one page) the best in this reboot has been Marcus To. Somehow I think he could even make Power Girl's costume *work* even with that terrible disproportionate design she has. Sigh. *Wishes Marcus To was still the artist for this book.*

In other news, James Robinson had this to say about Earth-2 Batman's relationship with Helena:

IGN: Easy enough. [laughs] Much has been made about the series incorporating the death of Lois Lane as a focal point for Superman and that Wonder Woman is the last of the Amazons, but things are more ambiguous in terms of the details we know about Batman. Can you speak to what makes this version of the character different than the one we know?

Robinson: Again, I don’t want to say too much. I know I’ve been criticized for that, but I am resolute. I just don’t want too much to go out until the book comes out. But this is what I will say: Batman, on this world, is a father. He’s got a responsibility and love in his heart, which makes him a different kind of Batman. He’s just as driven, but part of what he’s trying to do is imbue his offspring with his abilities. He’s not just passing on his talents, he’s also passing on his love for his daughter.”

Ummm...I hope James is aware that the main DCU Batman is *also* a father who loves all of his kids equally as well, unless he's describing the difference in terms of E2 Bruce actually being a part of Helena's life and upbringing since Day 1 of her life, whereas Damian just showed up one day and suddenly main DCU Batman has a ten-year-old son. Also from all that I've heard so far, it sounds like E2 Bruce had intended to raise Helena to be the next Batman, whereas main DCU Bruce sees Damian as a kid he has to repair.

Comments

[filthysize]

:D

I really think Robinson had a mindslip there and completely forgot Damian exists. I can't believe IGN didn't bring that up and ask him to clarify. That's kind of weak journalism.

[salinea]

and Dick, and the others as well even if he only got them later.

An adoptive father isn't any less of a father.

[arilou_skiff]

For some reason I can't help seeig PG's symbol as a hammer-and-sickle. I know that's not what it is, but it throws me off.

[icon_uk]

Whilst I like Robinson's work (usually) anyone who says Bruce hasn't been a father since the day Dick arrived at Wayne Manor onwards, has clearly not been reading the books for the past several decades.

[aeka]

MTE. Even if Helena is his biological baby, even on the original Earth-2 Dick was the first kid he raised. His comments also ignore that while main DCU Bruce has more adopted children than one can keep count, he has a biological kid there too.

[abriel]

Batman, on this world, is a father.

And he wasn't a father before, with his two adopted sons (Dick and Tim), one adopted daughter (Cass), one biological son (Damian), and one legal ward that he was taking care of like a son (Jason)? Could have fooled me.

Also Peege's new costume is still ugly.

[pyrotwilight]

Well actually Jason was adopted as well I believe but Dick wasn't until much later since I think Bruce figured it was obvious without adopting Dick that he was his new dad, sort of, and Jason needed the extra obvious confirmation from Bruce.

[gerardotejada]

Was Morrison who wrote "He is as obsesed with Family as He is with figthing crime"?

As I see Grant Morrison was the one who expanded the concept of "batman is not alone" thing, the only other comic I remember who portraited Bruce as a "father" was in Batgirl (even if Cass was adopted much later) and Catwoman (with little Helena).

In the Silver Age there was kind of Father Relationship with Dick, but never off the cliche stereotype.

I begin writing this post thinking the "Father Thing" was developed by Morrison but with all the above examples I have to admit, Robinson doesnt have any excuses, he need to catch up fast.

PD: #ShamelessFreeAdvertising# Oh god I love Morrison´s Run on Batman, Im re reading Batman Inc, It was the best thing to happend to the Bathman Mythos since No Man´s Land, a cool game changer and has a nice "happy" bruce wayne #ShamelessFreeAdvertising#

[darkknightjrk]

Is it terrible of me that with Maguire's art, it makes it look like Peeg has more of the...tracts of land that she had Pre-reboot and it makes me happy? I mean, like it or not, that is one of her more defining features--it'd be like Dick not having a great ass.

As for the costume...the kinda half symbol thing looks interesting in theory, but the actual symbol looks kinda goofy. If they had the symbol from the first iteration of this costume on this, it could look kinda cool. Plus it could still use some more blue or gold to break up all the white.

[aeka]

I honestly didn't take issue with the fact that Peege was a big-breasted woman in and of itself. What annoyed me was the awful tendency of some artists to draw her breasts like porn star breasts: unrealistically round and silicone heavy, rather than them just being naturally large. I found this very sexist and objectifying. At least here, Peege's breasts look more naturally large.

[darkknightjrk]

Not to mention that it would stand out more if more artists didn't draw ALL their characters with massive mammories. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm a semi-heterosexual male who can appreciate some rather large bosoms, but yeesh, let's have some variety!

[aeka]

I wouldn't just limit the variety to breast size. Seeing different body types in general would be nice to see, period. For the most part everyone has more or less the same body type.

Amanda Waller fan here. Still upset about that.

[darkknightjrk]

True, true.

You know what really bothers me about Waller in the DCnU? The weight thing doesn't bother me so much (to be fair, that's probably the easiest thing to change), but after seeing Amanda Waller in the Green Lantern movie, I'd much rather see her in that role--the US government's leading scientist when it comes to alien life, probably not trusting of the League. She would make a great foil to the new Steve Trevor. But no--we have to keep her as the same semi-sociopathic bore who likes putting bombs in criminals heads and make them do shit for her.

[gerardotejada]

I dont know, I expect writers take time to think how the characters deal with their bodies, because they are part of their identities (for example the first Atom it comes to mind).

For example with Kara I was always hoping that someone understood her relationship with her body, like, I dont know, how big breasts are a real problem to girls? because It can be uncomfortable, everybody stares, other girls are mean to you, I dont really know, but something like that.

And Amanda Waller was an example of why this reboot sucks so much. The fact that even my most precious Batwoman series is happening in the same universe as that "Waller" abomination sickens me.

[mullon]

That looks less bad than the last PG outfit we were shown, but I still miss her old costume.

[gerardotejada]

the bathing suit had a vintage feel, the Capitan Marvel kind of Cape gave her a classy look and the blue boots and gloves gave her the Power vibe she needed for beign Power Girl, a thing that was also acentuated by her short hair look.

The boob window I think was throw there as both as fanservice and a way so the breast can "breath", because otherwise It seems too thight, and because fanservice is cool.

[benicio127]

So her breasts can breathe?? Um. Breasts don't work that way.

[gerardotejada]

LOL is a fixed phrase, it means something like leting lose, relax presure. Not like "let them hang" or anything, hahaha.

I translate It the best I can, almost literaly. I have four sistera and five cousins, Im sorrounded by complains about bras. So i dont know how they work xD but I know is a pain to deal with them as they are a sensitive area and some time the straps hurt you and stuff.

[benicio127]

A boob window still doesn't work that way.

[gerardotejada]

Ha, there you got me, the only person that would use a boob window is lady gaga.

I was just guessing, but you have to admit there is no one with deep experience in boob window science

[bruinsfan]

It's Super Svetlana Zhurova!

[darkknightjrk]

Bleeding Cool just pulled a funny concerning the cover to #3--"Damn, someone REALLY wanted that boob window back!" :D

[junipepper]

Every time I see any version of nU!Peege's costume, I like it less.

[leikomgwtfbbq]

I would like the design of PG's new costume a lot more if her "P" symbol was centered. It just looks weird when it's hanging over only one side of her chest.

It's kind of growing on me (although I like the long-sleeve-leotard-boots-and-cape outfit the best, and probably always will, because it's a nice, simple costume) but that one thing still bugs the hell out of me.

[aeka]

Yeah the "P" on her left breast is what bothers me most as well. At least the "P" on the previous costume redesign was more symmetrical, here its completely unbalanced.

[leikomgwtfbbq]

I don't think I've ever seen another superhero with a symbol on only one side of their costume! It's either dead-center, or they don't have a symbol at all.

[aeka]

Neither have I. Then again I haven't read too many superhero comics, so my thoughts on that probably aren't worth anything. But nevertheless, I think it would have been much easier to just incorporate the "P" onto the boob window somehow, either that or they should've just kept the previous one they had.

[leikomgwtfbbq]

I read a lot of them and I have an interest in cool costumes, so I would've noticed such a weirdly off-center thing if I'd seen it before!

(Speaking of PG, I wish they would bring back Amanda Conner. She's probably my favorite comic artist--along with Nicola Scott--and she draws PG the best!)

[aeka]

Heh, oddly enough, I *just* remembered the original Earth-1 Superigirl *did* at one point wear the "S" logo on her left boob, but even that didn't look nearly as bad as the "P" logo on Peege's costume. This was the only good picture I could find of it. XP

Love Amanda Conner and Nicola Scott. Aside from Marcus To, I would definitely love to see either of these two artists on this book. A bloody shame I won't be picking up Earth-2 after #1 since I find the current premise very off-putting, which makes me feel bad cause I really wanted to support a Nicola Scott book. :(

[leikomgwtfbbq]

Well, at least that one just looks like it's a small, stylish badge or patch, rather than the giant thing taking up just one quarter of PG's torso XD

I probably won't be picking it up, either. I like that Earth-2 was the comparatively lighter and happier-ever-after world, and I think we've got enough grimdark on the main world right now, thanks!

[aeka]

Not only that, but the original Earth-2 was more diverse in the sense that we literally had heroes of different age groups and at different stages in their lives. The fact that they got to live the lives that their perpetually young Earth-1 counterparts would never get to live is what added to its appeal.

An Earth-2 where Huntress and Power Girl are within the same age group as Flash and Green Lantern, and on top of that Lois, Selina, and all of the Amazons are dead, what's the point? It doesn't help that I was even more put off by James Robinson excusing women in refrigerators as an acceptable plot device to advance a story. I think that last one is what sealed the deal for me. :/

[leikomgwtfbbq]

It's the whole damn package that bothers me. Bleh to all of it.

Isn't the point of alternate worlds that they're supposed to be... like... alternates to the main world? Not "the same thing, with the same atmosphere, but there are some other people dead"?

[aeka]

More like "same premise, same atmosphere, just with more dead female bodies to the mix."

Yeah, no thanks. I'll pass.

(frozen)

[gerardotejada]

women in refrigerators is an acceptable plot for any storie if is throwed in a good way, What was Ofelia in Hamlet but a WIR? Gaiman did a parody of WIR with Wanda in A game of you (this are the GOOD examples).

I think we are now more self aware because of late scandals, but anyway the "killing off characters" is been around forever, and you cant kill a popular character, (that is a character that sells well) so you kill B lists or C lists, and because male heroes sell better, then the one down is going to be a woman.

And It works like a charm Killing Joke? bam a Hit! Identity Crisis? bam best seller!, etc. Even the Original Supergirl´s death was a hit.

The only trick is that you cant kill a relevant hero in canon continuity, only If at the time said hero is not doing much to help the image an the sells of the company.

The cheapest trick is to create an expendable character, It is disgusting and loathed by everyone but the writer then can kill It without asking, and Is always a girlfriend. This is the only one the writers seem to really despise as sexist and cheap but not the other ones.

It doesnt mean Robinson is going to start throwing one wir after another just because he aknowledges It is an acceptable plot device to advance a story.... Well thats what I hope

(frozen) Mod Note

[aeka]

Please do not suggest that because a problematic trope like WIR is utilised ad nauseam to advance (typically) a male character's story that it is a perfectly acceptable plot device, and even less so when it is used in a way that disrespects and even degrades female characters. Not only is equating 'female' with 'expandable' insulting and misogynistic in and of itself, but it contributes to an even bigger problem of how society at large normalises misogyny and even outright excuses acts of violence committed against women in real life.

Please reacquaint yourself with the rules of the comm.

Re: Mod Note

[gerardotejada]

First I never meant to equate "female" with "expendable" but "expendable" with "girlfriend", and would be ridiculous to think female characters equal girlfriends, Amanda Waller is an example of a civil female not playing the "girlfriend" part, so It was Renee Montoya before beign the Question, Sarah Bordeaux is another example, etc.

Second, I admited that was sexist and mysogenistic, I meant to say the same as you told me.

Third, It is an acceptable plot device, It can be good or bad. I mean that as any plot device It is a tool for a bigger structure. It can disrespect and degrade but thats not Its only use. I wont even question the morality of fictions and cultural works and how affects real life, or if It is the other way round. Just that It is, to every light, a plot device along many others.

So, nor did I justify It but merely wanted to explain It, nor did I sugests Female are expendable but that token characters that are females may be for sexist reasons. Nor did I justify certain deaths (as now that I read my post I see It could be seen that way) but gave them as an example to predict others.

It wasnt my intention to normalise anything more than an speculative set of rules. It is dificult to explain myself when Im not native speaker and, most important, Im not even there/here to clarify step by step.

It feels weird after I read my previous post, It wasnt meant to be too serious, not be taken as a jsutification but more as a rant to the money making the ideological decitions, and that I dont think It is the case everytime. And that for me WIR should not be an standar for judging solely by Itself

Mod Note

[benicio127]

This thread has been frozen while the mods discuss it.

Mod Note: Second Warning

[aeka]

gerardotejada, first and foremost, when asked by a mod not to defend a misogynistic trope that is both harmful and disrespectful to women by treating them as props for another character's story, it is not appropriate to continue to assert why you think it is an acceptable plot device, and even less so in a feminist community that neither supports nor tolerates oppressive and discriminatory behaviour.

Second, that you are not recognising a girlfriend character as a female character is incredibly dismissive. Girlfriends are female characters and bluntly stating that "girlfriends are expendable" is both misogynistic and dehumanising. The fact they are so constantly used in the WiR trope is a part of the problem.

Whether or not your last and/or your current comment was posted in a joking matter has little relevance. That you state it is a joke is now pushing the idea that those concerned about the treatment of women in comics just "can't take a joke." Frankly, sexism and misogyny aren't a laughing matter, especially to those who are affected by it. You are also accountable for your words and what you say, and what you have said is contrary to the rules and ethos of Scans_Daily.

We invite you to take some time away from Scans_Daily in order to consider your words and how you are accountable for them. This is your SECOND OFFICIAL WARNING. This is what they call a "second strike" and you are now suspended from the community for the next fourteen days, after which you will be allowed to return. Please note that if you receive one further warning you will lose the ability to post on this community.

(frozen)

[gerardotejada]

"And It works like a charm Killing Joke? bam a Hit! Identity Crisis? bam best seller!" read with annoyance.

"The only trick is that you cant kill a relevant hero in canon continuity, only If at the time said hero is not doing much to help the image an the sells of the company." Killing Joke rule.

"The cheapest trick is to create an expendable character, It is disgusting and loathed by everyone but the writer then can kill It without asking, and Is always a girlfriend. This is the only one the writers seem to really despise as sexist and cheap but not the other ones."

I repeat, that is BAD and happens in BAD comics wich are BAD. Unless It is a greek tragedy, or It is a background character.

Mmm... what more, oh yeah, publishers´s ideas are the ones with less risk and high dollars. And I am sure there are male bodies, no need to throw a monopoly so early.

(frozen) Mod Note: Thread Freeze

[benicio127]

This comment has been frozen while the mods discuss it.

[thormonger]

Kyle Rayner and Guy Gardner come to mind.

[jfurioso]

Robin has always sported an off-center logo.

[betaraybetty]

I... have lots of feelings about this... I just don't know what they are yet :/
It does look very space-suit-y, though, which is fitting for an alien...?
But it looks even harder to get into than any other costume. At least Helena can take pieces of hers off. The great white bodyglove with built-in boots seems awkward for someone who needs to change quickly. But it does look very streamlined and spacey, so... points for that?

[auggie18]

By the by, I love your name/icon.

[betaraybetty]

Ah, but you did this to me.
I've been stealthy for months, but now my cover is blown. :|

[auggie18]

Le gasp! My real life and my internet life are colliding! WHOOOOOOOA!

[lascoden]

Maybe it's like Superman's new costume, and it materializes over her?

[betaraybetty]

Haha, maybe. Magical technology solves everything!