Joker and The Riddler

[alex_sc]

My two favorite Bat rogues have a uhmm... meeting

Comments

[darkknightjrk]

Yeah, this was definitely Snyder setting Eddie up as a formidable foe for his next big arc.

Also, the bit with the horse before this and Joker using Jeremiah Arkham's doctorate certificate to map his plans because, "it was just sitting there, collecting dust and not being used" were the funniest bits from Joker in this arc yet.

[sinisterlink]

I haven't really been into this arc since Leatherface Joker hasn't been appealing to me, but I do like that Joker will actually admit that Eddie is way smarter than all of them and that he would totally get away with most of his plans if he wasn't so into leaving clues all over.

I also love how in the "Stop this, Joker" panel Eddie has his finger up like he's going, "I am going to give you such a talking to when I get out of here, Joker". Oh, Eddie.

[sinisterlink]

Oh, and I also like how Eddie has "improved" his prison uniform. Hee.

[silverhammerman]

This certainly looks more interesting than the Penguin backup from last month.
I hope this means that Riddler is going to be the villain of the next arc going forward, I remember seeing a really cool sketch of the character from Capullo's DeviantArt a while back, so I know he can draw him well. Also, it'd be nice because for some reason a feel like it's been a while since we had a good story that used the Riddler as the main villain, and I think the dude should be used more often. I just really hope the next arc changes things up though, by maybe being a bit shorter and maybe less dark, since so far Snyder's Batman has consisted almost entirely of long arcs with Batman getting beaten up, and I just think that a change of pace would be nice.

[mrstatham]

Snyder's already confirmed that Eddie is going to be the next villain moving forward, I think. They're giving Capullo another break for an issue or so to let him catch up, which is why one of the Kuberts is working issue... #17, I think?

But as it is, this is a pretty short arc already; #13 to #17 already takes it under the usual six-issue standard for a story, even if it is only by one issue. I do hope the next one's not too dark, too, however, and I really hope that there isn't yet another crossover event coming with the Riddler at the centre of it, because if anything, I think these back-up stories prove that Snyder could've basically handled the entire story himself without any need for tie-ins.

[kenn_el]

But the tie-ins are to benefit the other books' sales, not the main Bat title. Actually, where I think involving the other books doesn't work well in the Joker arc (he's only one foe, and he comes off being TOO omnipresent, whereas the Court Of Owls worked because of the many talons), a Riddler family-wide mystery might be fun. Each character pursues a single clue that factors into the whole separately, for example.

[mrstatham]

The tie-ins might benefit sales, but it does just feel increasingly disruptive when this is the second big crossover for the Bat-Family of books within the space of 12 months - and in fact, this one is more disruptive, given it's over months instead of just one month.

I could see a Riddler crossover (maybe just one month's worth like the Talon stuff) working nicely, but I just don't get how this big Joker crossover is going to work; It already feels bloated and preposterous that the Joker has been directly interacting face-to-face with Batman in the lead title, but has had time to meet with Batgirl and propose marriage AND meet with Catwoman to taunt her about Batman, let alone getting into the main body of Nightwing, Red Hood, and Teen Titans.

[darkknightjrk]

As I recall, #18-20 is going to be a three-part arc dealing with Death of the Family fall-out and Harper Row returning, and Andy Kubert will be drawing those issues, and then #21 to...#32 (I think, Snyder said it was going to be another big one) would be an arc involving The Riddler and the Red Hood Gang.

[silverhammerman]

Really? Dang, I don't like fallout arcs, like, as a concept they just seem a bit lazy. And I'm so not jazzed at the prospect of another 11 issue arc.

[darkknightjrk]

I hear ya--like, I don't think Court of Owls was super-padded, Snyder did a good job of putting something interesting in every issue of that, but I also didn't think it NEEDED eleven issues either. But, I'm going to wait to read this arc for myself before I judge it too harshly.

[darkknightjrk]

In the interest of fairness, I should note that I was off. Snyder said in an interview he did with CBR today that the next big arc after the three-parter is nine issues, not eleven.

[icon_uk]

Oh proper Riddler deathtrap's... I've missed those. If I only had any confidence that they'd do them right I'd be happy as a clam....

[silverhammerman]

Same. I love the idea of deathtraps, but I'm a little afraid that they'll all just wind up being like a riddle-based version of Saw, or a cliche "For every 10 seconds you take to answer this riddle I will detonate a bomb strapped to an orphan." I kind of prefer my Riddler to minimize bloodshed.

[venatosapiens]

Is anyone else getting deeply sick of Snyder's "Court of Batman" metaphor? Seriously, dude. Give it a rest.

[silicondream]

Pretty much. Also, after the 14th time the Joker draaaaaaaawwwwwws out a syllable, it really doesn't need to be written that way anymore.

[lucky_gamble]

He has? Who else has been named in this "court"?

[darkknightjrk]

My problem with it isn't in the book--it's the fact that he said it multiple times in interviews before it. On one hand, I like how open and thoughtful he is in terms of the bat-mythos, but I kinda wish he wouldn't give out so much info of his work before hand.

[rijsg]

Easily the best backup so far. Snyder said his next storyline after DotF is a really large-scale Riddler one, so I guess this is setup.

I love that they respect each other. That whole conversation was great. And Jock art <3

[lieut_kettch]

So did the Riddler's heel-face-heel turn occur in the DCnU? Or was he always a villain?

[darkknightjrk]

They haven't said--but since that heel-turn arc by Daniel was awful, I'm going to say that he was always a villain regardless.

[silverhammerman]

I never got to read that story, but I always thought it was kind of an interesting idea. Riddler would fit in perfectly among the ranks of today's ultra smart but kind of jerk-y TV detectives.

[darkknightjrk]

That good(er)-guy Riddler wasn't really used all that much--Dini of course introduced him, and there was a fill-in arc in Gotham City Sirens (by Scott Lobdell, I was actually surprised by, didn't know he did any DC work before the New 52), but that's pretty much it.

[skemono]

Hm... while I like most of the conversation here, I'm a bit torn about the last page. I know the Riddler's smart, but are knowing the ways to break out of cells & how to rewire security systems among his forte? I suppose any supervillain probably has to learn those, but I just don't see technical skills as among Nigma's talents. Studying the guard pattern and exploiting that seems much more his suited to his strengths.

[darkknightjrk]

Well, if he wants to be the smartest guy in the room, he would probably read up on stuff like that. He would probably look at the idea of breaking out of his cell as a puzzle to solve.