Well, Kon's been paired with Tim AND Cass. And had a relationship with Cassie, who made out with Tim...
You know what, they should just have a Tim/Kon/Steph/Cass/Cassie/Kara orgy to get all the UST out of the way. Though it'll stray into semi-squickiness should Kon and Kara wind up pairing up or touching in the course of all this. EEEWWW! Clone-cousin-cest!
Though people seem more willing to accept that Bruce can do things that Cass can do, because he's Batman. But they draw the line at someone who was trained from birth being able to do such things, even if they spend all their freetime training to make themselves even better.
People get kind of defensive about this, go figure.
I can only recall ever seeing Batman slowing his heart through meditation or masking it with chemicals, and that strikes me as is slightly more plausible than just flat out stopping it, which is just kind of an odd and vague skill(?) to throw out free of context. I've wondered about the Cass-Bruce skill discrepancy a bit before and I think it comes down to a matter of exposure. I've read a fair bit of Batman, I've seen him fight superhumans and thugs and generally be awesome, so wherever a comic makes a claim about or an allusion to his badassery, I remember that stuff and so I know that Batman is indeed the badass that they're saying he is. With Cass though, I have very little experience with the character, I've read maybe one or two storylines with her, and when I see a story talk about how hardcore she is, it's like they're telling me instead of showing why she's a badass, which makes Cass' skills seem less earned I think. With Cass it's like I'm just being told that she's a really great badass, but with Bruce I've actually seen it. I mean, that's how I think of it, I'm sure other people might have different problems with it.
Yeah, it kind of makes more sense as something she could do in the context of her own series... I do see a lot of people who object to her doing things because "she's a munchkin", or "she's a Mary Su!", both terms I despise, while allowing it for Batman just BECAUSE he's Batman with no further explanation.
I still think the decision to knock off Bludhaven was dumb (a city worse than Gotham where DC could send all extra Bat-kids like Dick, Cass and Tim when the main books got too crowded) especially when they dropped it (aside from a bad mini) and never mentioned it again. A city in the middle of New Jersey (or wherever Gotham and Bludhaven are located) is basically nuked, millions are killed, portions of the city become a latter-day Chernobly and Bruce Wayne (number one citizen in the state) never seems that interested despite at least two of his "kids" living there and only Nightwing was interested in bringing Deathstroke to justice for it.
What's worse was that it was something DC wanted to attempt again - remember James Robinson said his "editors" (i.e. Eddie Berganza and Dan Didio) wanted him to eliminate all fictional DC cities not named Gotham and Metropolis in Cry for Justice (at the same time he was supposed to kill off Mia/Speedy with Lian) and he refused. It's just one of those "what were they thinking" moments that seem to often occur when it comes to DC Editorial decisions.
I think it came up a few times, but yea, it was a waste, Nightwing's series developed it pretty well.
Hm, yea, that reasoning seems to fit DC's of the time- the reasoning behind the reboot, the reasoning for getting rid of minority characters with cult followings, etc.. "If it isn't super-big, toss it in the trash heap!".
Really no appreciation for building something up over time...
Point of order, given how very very many people Tim has lost: Who is the "other girl" Tim "had feelings for" that Cass is referring to alongside Steph in her exposition boxes?
I did a longer explanation in response to the person above, but the short version is: Girl Tim might have left Steph for was shot dead in front of him during War Games, because her dad was a Mob Boss. She later came back as a zombie-ghost.
Zombie-ghost Sorceress. Who later joined the awesomeness that is the Shadowpact. So she got better. Sort of. At least she got to hang out with a talking chimp with a genius IQ and a cowboy with magic six-shooters that turn you into stone.
Tim's new semi-girlfriend who he started semi-dating in a period of downtime in his relationship with Steph (yes, he was sort of seeing someone else when she died, which is sad though apt considering she was seeing another girl, Arianna, when he started seeing Steph) who was shot dead during War Games due to being the daughter of a Mafia boss.
Basically the head of the Russian Mob decided an effective way to take members of other gangs off the playing field was to send her men to go and kill the families of rival gang members. Which resulted in her sending armed men into playgrounds to kill children as young as four.
And in the case of Tim's new semi-GF (she was interested but Tim just saw her as just a very good friend at the time, unable to kind of get past what her father did for a living), numerous other girls who happened to look like her were shot dead (and other students who happened to be in the way) before she painfully bled to death in front of Tim.
And this happened IN A HIGHSCHOOL.
She eventually came back as a kind of zombie-ghost, appearing in a couple of other Bill Willingham DC books like Shadowpact later on, but, yeah, it's kind of bizarre considering all the crap surrounding War Games how this manages to get a pass from people.
Yeah, that sounds like the stupidest idea ever on the Russian mob boss' part. 'I'll kill the families of EVERY rival organised crime syndicate in Gotham, giving them all a common enemy, not to mention bringing down the attention of the Gotham police and the Goddamn Batman down on my organization due to the collateral damage and killing 4-year-olds!'
Batman did hunt her own, hold her over a live subway rail, and gouged out her sapphire false eye to pay towards the victims of that particular killing spree.
She didn't exctly get away scott free, but she didn't exactly get any jailtime for it either.
Basically he couldn't get at Black Mask at this point, so he kind of took out all of his frustrations about War Games, including Steph's death, out on her instead.
All I learned today was how ridiculous Tim looks sitting on that couch without his Robin top. A T-shirt, tights, and red underwear on the outside. Nice.
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no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 12:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 02:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 03:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 09:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-28 03:39 pm (UTC)NO WAIT.... i ship Tim with Conner...... what is WRONG with me... it's her eyes!
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Date: 2013-01-29 04:25 am (UTC)You know what, they should just have a Tim/Kon/Steph/Cass/Cassie/Kara orgy to get all the UST out of the way. Though it'll stray into semi-squickiness should Kon and Kara wind up pairing up or touching in the course of all this. EEEWWW! Clone-cousin-cest!
no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 02:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 05:58 am (UTC)I don't think it's a 'will the heart to stop' thing, just a 'hit this place on anyone and it stops for a bit' thing.
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Date: 2013-01-27 06:26 am (UTC)The trick is to get it going again... How does that work?! :)
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Date: 2013-01-27 09:28 am (UTC)Though people seem more willing to accept that Bruce can do things that Cass can do, because he's Batman. But they draw the line at someone who was trained from birth being able to do such things, even if they spend all their freetime training to make themselves even better.
People get kind of defensive about this, go figure.
no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 04:15 pm (UTC)I've wondered about the Cass-Bruce skill discrepancy a bit before and I think it comes down to a matter of exposure. I've read a fair bit of Batman, I've seen him fight superhumans and thugs and generally be awesome, so wherever a comic makes a claim about or an allusion to his badassery, I remember that stuff and so I know that Batman is indeed the badass that they're saying he is. With Cass though, I have very little experience with the character, I've read maybe one or two storylines with her, and when I see a story talk about how hardcore she is, it's like they're telling me instead of showing why she's a badass, which makes Cass' skills seem less earned I think. With Cass it's like I'm just being told that she's a really great badass, but with Bruce I've actually seen it.
I mean, that's how I think of it, I'm sure other people might have different problems with it.
no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 10:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 03:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 05:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 05:54 am (UTC)-
Well, he blew up Bludhaven, but I don't think any of them were shown-killed (unlike a lot of Dick's Bludhaven villains). I say they escaped ^^
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Date: 2013-01-27 06:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 06:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 07:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 09:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 09:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-28 05:01 am (UTC)What's worse was that it was something DC wanted to attempt again - remember James Robinson said his "editors" (i.e. Eddie Berganza and Dan Didio) wanted him to eliminate all fictional DC cities not named Gotham and Metropolis in Cry for Justice (at the same time he was supposed to kill off Mia/Speedy with Lian) and he refused. It's just one of those "what were they thinking" moments that seem to often occur when it comes to DC Editorial decisions.
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Date: 2013-01-28 05:13 am (UTC)Hm, yea, that reasoning seems to fit DC's of the time- the reasoning behind the reboot, the reasoning for getting rid of minority characters with cult followings, etc.. "If it isn't super-big, toss it in the trash heap!".
Really no appreciation for building something up over time...
no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 07:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 07:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 09:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 09:54 am (UTC)War Games sure was hard on characters.
no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 10:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-29 04:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 09:19 am (UTC)Basically the head of the Russian Mob decided an effective way to take members of other gangs off the playing field was to send her men to go and kill the families of rival gang members. Which resulted in her sending armed men into playgrounds to kill children as young as four.
And in the case of Tim's new semi-GF (she was interested but Tim just saw her as just a very good friend at the time, unable to kind of get past what her father did for a living), numerous other girls who happened to look like her were shot dead (and other students who happened to be in the way) before she painfully bled to death in front of Tim.
And this happened IN A HIGHSCHOOL.
She eventually came back as a kind of zombie-ghost, appearing in a couple of other Bill Willingham DC books like Shadowpact later on, but, yeah, it's kind of bizarre considering all the crap surrounding War Games how this manages to get a pass from people.
no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 10:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 04:51 pm (UTC)Balalaika, she is clearly not.
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Date: 2013-01-27 10:21 pm (UTC)She didn't exctly get away scott free, but she didn't exactly get any jailtime for it either.
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Date: 2013-01-28 03:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-28 04:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-27 12:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-01-28 03:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-27 11:49 pm (UTC)