espanolbot: (Default)
[personal profile] espanolbot posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Spoilers, huge ones.

Leaked by the guy who leaked Spider-Man 700 early, which kind of makes you wonder when they'll take legal action against the guy.

Soooooo, who's saying they won't carry through on it, and who is saying they will? The solicit says that this is something that Morrison planned from the start of his Batman run, so that combined with some of the other May solicits could imply SOMETHING will happen to Damian.

And what with Jason being distinctly upwardly mobile these days, we do kind of need something to justify bringing back the display case that people kept crashing into during fights in the Bat Cave.

As demonstrated by this Shortpacked strip,

Date: 2013-02-15 11:19 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Whilst Morrison is a writer I can imagine WOULD cheerfully kill Damian as part of a long term plan (I could see Damian making a heroic sacrifice if he got a glimpse of the hellish future that we've seen him be a part of) I can't imagine it would be popular amongst the marketing department who already have Damian action figures to churn out this year.

If, on the other hand, they DO kill him, I could see it being an issue in context for the DCnU; Five years, four Robins (Or Robin substitutes... "I can't believe it's not Robin" perhaps), and two have been killed would be a REALLY shitty track record for Batman.
Edited Date: 2013-02-15 11:19 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-02-16 06:07 am (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
I don't know about the marketing side of things, Damian is probably the Robin that could be most easily phased out just from a business perspective. Dick, Jason and Tim all have a certain degree of profile outside of comics, having appeared in cartoons, videogames, and the like, whereas Damian has pretty much been exclusive to the comics as far as I know.
Plus, I think that Damian easily has the weakest core concept of all the Robins. Dick, Jason and Tim all have that sort of simple, appealing "He's a kid just like you, and he gets to hang out with Batman!" concept, while simultaneously having other levels that they work on. With Dick Bruce was reminded of himself, with Jason he wanted to give this kid an outlet, and Tim was just a kid who really like Batman and wanted to help people. Damian on the other hand is Batman's super secret ninja son who is kind of a brat, and when he's paired with Bruce rather than Dick it lacks the subtlety and relatable quality of the other partnerships.
Edited Date: 2013-02-16 06:23 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-02-16 10:29 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Damian has showed up in, of all places, the "Batman: Brave and the Bold" cartoon, for one episode perhaps, but he showed up.

The other issue is, Batman pretty much HAS to have a Robin marketing wise (and in terms of being "iconic") so who would they get in to replace him? Tim taking on the actual Robin role seems unlikely and whilst Steph would have a certain coolness as a concept, it would definitely feel like Robin not only has been, but is, a very... replaceable character?

Date: 2013-02-16 02:25 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Squire. I could see Grant doing that, somehow? Cyril's dead and Bruce has to feel guilty over that, since it was part of his initiative that led to it, and Beryl has a deliberate Robin flavour to her.

Date: 2013-02-16 04:04 pm (UTC)
rdfox: Joker asking Tim Drake, "'Sup?" from Paul Dini's "Slay Ride" (Default)
From: [personal profile] rdfox
But that would mean a GIRL Robin, and that wouldn't be ICONIC!

No, I'm sure they'll find some excuse to put Dick in the scaled manties again.

Date: 2013-02-16 04:09 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
They should've done that anyway. It would have been stupid, granted, but at least they couldn't have been accused of deliberately making the entirety of the family a sausage-fest in general, which hasn't really done the current Batgirl any favours because it looks like blatant favouritism for Barbara.

Reset everything. Go back to just Bruce, Dick, and Barbara. Basics. That way, at least fans would know the things DC are doing aren't intentional dick moves toward certain characters but more attempts to simplify and streamline stuff. Should've been done with the entire DCU, only Johns was too selfish to reset Green Lantern.

Date: 2013-02-16 05:51 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
I don't think resetting everything would be the way to go, Dick as almost as well known as Nightwing as he is as Robin, and he's a character's actually gotten to develop, which I wouldn't want to take away. I mean, I think it would be cool to revisit his career as Robin and eventual split from Batman in a modern context, but I also flat out don't trust DC to actually allow significant character development these days. Also, I know that personally I'd just be anticipating the day the he finally becomes Nightwing again.
I think it'd be better to maybe have it so that in the "present" Dick has only recently become Nightwing, and then do a couple flashback arcs, ala Morrison's Action Comics, to show him as Robin. Depending on how they work the ages Dick would then be available as an independent teenage character and they could substitute Jason or Tim as Robin. I'm not so sure what I'd want to do about the Batgirls though, because I kind of prefer Barbara as Oracle but it would be hard to get her there without retreading the Killing Joke yet again.

Date: 2013-02-16 10:07 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
Eh, just have her fall down some stairs.

Yes, that really changes her backstory and themes, but that's what these simplifications do.

Date: 2013-02-16 07:16 pm (UTC)
halloweenjack: (Default)
From: [personal profile] halloweenjack
Sadly, you're probably right. I'd almost rather that they don't do anything with Beryl rather than have her end up getting fridged and/or retconned away.

Date: 2013-02-15 11:34 pm (UTC)
arbre_rieur: (Default)
From: [personal profile] arbre_rieur
Maybe it'll turn out to be as genuine a death as "Batman RIP" was.

Date: 2013-02-15 11:35 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
They already had a "Robin pretends to be dead" arc only an issue or two back... Sort of spoiled by him instantly adopting the new identity of "Redbird" (I wonder if Tim ever teased him about his new codename being the name of Tim's old CAR!)

Date: 2013-02-20 09:50 am (UTC)
jcbaggee: Jesus (Default)
From: [personal profile] jcbaggee
Given Tim was never really Robin, the Redbird probably never existed anymore, which is pretty sad.

Date: 2013-02-15 11:45 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I think if he does die, he'll probably come back by the end of the story. I mean, we're talking about villains who have access to magic resurrection pools.

Date: 2013-02-16 12:21 am (UTC)
onceaskrull: (Default)
From: [personal profile] onceaskrull
Likewise, I think that if Damian does die, he won't be gone long. They've put too much into the relationship of THIS Robin to Batman (at the expense of all other former Robins, in my opinion), for them to let it last.

Date: 2013-02-16 07:23 pm (UTC)
kurenai_tenka: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kurenai_tenka
They've put too much into the relationship of THIS Robin to Batman (at the expense of all other former Robins, in my opinion)

So true.

Date: 2013-02-16 12:04 am (UTC)
chrisdv: (Superman)
From: [personal profile] chrisdv
Surely if Robin was going to die, it would be in the crossover that took over all of the Bat Family titles for the last third of a year?

Date: 2013-02-16 12:09 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
But that was a Joker story, not a Robin story per se.

Date: 2013-02-16 01:21 am (UTC)
flint_marko: (Arden & Mary)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Since Grant Morrison wasn't involved, no.

Date: 2013-02-16 01:14 am (UTC)
flint_marko: (Arden & Mary)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
I don't care about Damian, but I'm going to be pissed if Morrison has Talia kill her own son.

Leaked by the guy who leaked Spider-Man 700 early

The guy put it on ebay before Marvel made him take it down, but he wasn't the one who posted scans of the ending online.
Edited Date: 2013-02-16 01:19 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-02-16 02:50 am (UTC)
aeka: (Huntress [computer]:)
From: [personal profile] aeka
If Damian is killed in this month's issue, I'm placing my bets that he'll be depicted sacrificing his own life to save Gotham and his family. That is, of course, me taking Grant Morrison at his word that the ending of this series will leave us all teary-eyed.

Though given that Talia has been written largely (if not completely) out of character throughout this series, the alternative is possible as well. I just hope it won't be the case.

Date: 2013-02-16 01:17 am (UTC)
cainofdreaming: cain's mark (pic#364829)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
So, French Revolution era Robin or a Gladiator Robin? Which will we get to see first? Any bets?

Date: 2013-02-16 01:28 am (UTC)
cypherfdp: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cypherfdp
Obviously it would be Samurai Robin, assuming we're not going for Zulu Warrior Robin.

Date: 2013-02-16 04:10 am (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
Completely out of left field, Sailor Senshi Robin.

Date: 2013-02-16 10:41 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
(no title)

Date: 2013-02-16 01:59 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Batman & Robin)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I think the guy who posted the ASM #700 scans is someone else; he's known as "Scanbro" on 4chan and he's apparently a random comicbook shop employee who leaks early issues in their entirety.

Date: 2013-02-16 07:25 pm (UTC)
kurenai_tenka: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kurenai_tenka
Ah, same jerk who leaked the ending of Death of the Family then.

Date: 2013-02-16 09:14 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
If Morrison does do it, I have to say I think it would be really rather selfish of him and kind-of subvert what he seems to have been trying to do in bringing all these old concepts back and building up new ones. To break all the toys he himself has made and render them unavailable to the following writers - just seems pointless and spiteful. But that might be how he feels after DC essentially scuttled what he was doing with the reboot, to say nothing of Marvel's approach to his X-Men stuff.

Do I think he could do it? Sure. Look what he did to the Knight, which was entirely out of left field, to me. The weird thing is, I don't particularly care for Damian as a character - I think he's a little asshole, to put it bluntly - but if Morrison does go through with this, he KNOWS that he's actively contributing to the cyclical nature of a character that he's confessed he doesn't like very much and has tried - in some ways - to avert. Because how will this end other than being a repeat of the Jason Todd scenario agian?

Date: 2013-02-16 02:06 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Grant doesn't like Damian?

Date: 2013-02-16 02:28 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I think you kinda misunderstood what I meant by referring to the 'cyclical nature of a character'; I was talking about Bruce, there, and how the nature of losing a Robin - especially Jason - puts Bruce in a place where he doesn't need to be, not again, anyway. So I'm just saying that if Morrison DOES kill Damian, then it'll basically just be repeating the Jason Todd experience all over again in terms of it's effects on Bruce, which is something I can't imagine Morrison wanting to do.

Date: 2013-02-17 10:41 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Ohhhh, I see, got ya. Though in all honesty Damian's death just seems so unlikely, I think will be seeing him for a long time. The 'death of Robin' might happen in a more metaphorical sense though...

Date: 2013-02-16 04:07 pm (UTC)
rdfox: Joker asking Tim Drake, "'Sup?" from Paul Dini's "Slay Ride" (Default)
From: [personal profile] rdfox
Hey, at least it'd be a step forward for him; he'd be breaking his OWN toys, not the ones everyone else has to use after him! (Yes, I'm being semi-sarcastic.)

Date: 2013-02-16 04:15 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
To be fair, Morrison hasn't really broken anyone else's toys during his Batman run. He adjusted various pieces, but it's arguable that Tim Drake, Dick Grayson and a handful of others were never better than whilst he was leading the titles, especially after they basically shit all over Tim to make him far too much like Bruce, and to say nothing of poor Cass and Steph.

But then.. Well, it annoys me that he has killed off Squire. Part of superhero comics, to me, is telling the story you want to tell and understanding that others are going to be playing with the same toys when you're done. If you're going to contribute something yourself - a new toy, so to speak - why break it? Cyril wasn't used nearly enough to justify his death, and whilst his death was upsetting, it wasn't because of how it was done in the book, it's because I thought it was a complete waste of a great character.

(Sorry. I know you said you were being semi-sarcastic, but it was difficult to judge where)

Date: 2013-02-16 08:16 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
He killed Knight, not Squire.

And it has to be noted that it was always Morrison's intent to kill Damian at the end of his first story, to show, I suppose, that flesh and blood aren't enough to make you a Robin. It was his unexpected success which kept him around.

Date: 2013-02-16 08:27 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
My bad re: Squire/Knight confusion.

Still, even if it was Morrison's intent then, that doesn't mean it works to just get rid of the character now, because people are clearly attached to him and he does fit the role better than he did when he first appeared. And again, why take away some of the ideas you're contributing? It just seems like Morrison is desperate to put everything he's made back in the box.

Date: 2013-02-17 04:50 am (UTC)
flint_marko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Where did you hear Grant was going to kill him off in the first story?

Date: 2013-02-17 11:47 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Here, for one

Morrison: No, when I first introduced him, I figured I was going to kill him off at the end of that first four-part story.

Nrama: Really?

Morrison: Yeah! Really! I thought people would hate him so much. I thought I'd do one of those classic stories where the little bad guy in the last act suddenly does a wonderful thing and sacrifices his life and saves the world and you feel sorry for him. But then I thought, no, this character has a lot more potential.

Once I'd written the first part of the original "Batman and Son" story, where Damian's in the cave and he's such a brat and he's so unpleasant to everyone, and the fact that Batman had this boy with such hatred, gave me this feeling that I thought, "I'm going to make everyone love this character, because I think there's some big potential here."

It's really worked out. He's really become quite a breakout character from the series. As I said at the start of Batman & Robin, I think he's almost got the potential to be the Wolverine of Batman. You know... he's got that little feisty, tough guy, scrapper thing going on, but in a very different way, obviously. He's an aristocrat and an assassin.

But yeah, once I realized that I was going to keep the kid alive, it was always my intention to put him through a big, big story arc that would end up with him being one of the great heroes of the DC Universe.

Date: 2013-02-16 12:30 pm (UTC)
maxisanacorn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] maxisanacorn
It does seem Morrison is a bit perturbed with DC - the reboot really did put a wrench in the status quo he was trying to build - he was making Cass Cain a viable character with a new moniker which Snyder embraced and used in Gates of Gotham. While Dick was going to stop being Batman the fact he decided to keep it was great - Batman Inc was about multiple Batmans anyway why limit it to just Bruce now?

He gave Stephanie Brown Batgirl a WONDERFUL chance of finally working with Bruce again, her issue of Inc was surely meant to "solidify" her role as Batgirl (though her Road Home one was pretty much that too). She was never as high as Batgirl as that, which makes it that much sadder since they literally pulled the rug out from underneath her just as she was narrative-wise FINALLY THERE. The fact he treated her so well (when female characters aren't always his strengths per se) was also terribly cool.

He was pushing Oracle to shift from pressing a button and make it explode type hacker, to give her a Major Motoko digital dive into the net makeover (though the art for that book was atrocious) - effectively making her surely in future stories appear mobile but still be disabled and regardless still making a difference. Barbara was this amazing Bat Goddess in Leviathan Strikes and now she's just "part of the batfamily" did she even do anything remarkable in Death of A Family outside of her own books tie-in issues? She's just "there" in group shots.

He's tried and tried apparently to use both Cassandra and Steph and editorial won't allow it. Killing Knight seems pretty spiteful though not too out there - it's a shame though Knight and Squire are very, very funny.

Him killing Damian would effectively pretty much take out the last bit of his run as all his other attempts and revamps and whatnot have been pretty much gutted. I wouldn't be surprised if he killed Talia too.

Though things DO seem to be circling back to this R.I.P. type cycle and I have a feeling Damian might not die, we are just being lead to believe it so, just as we were all manipulated to think Batman died.

I truly do not want Harper to be Robin as some people have suggested though, I feel that is such horrible timing and very misguided of DC when fans want Cass and Steph to come back and their wants are promptly ignored.

Date: 2013-02-16 02:35 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I agree with everything except the notion of Harper becoming Robin. I wouldn't particularly mind that if it happened, because I don't feel Damian particularly earned the role before he put the costume on, but he at least grew into the role. Harper *could* do the same, but I don't think that's Snyder's intention at all, because he hasn't shown her to be an incredibly physically capable character like the majority of the Bat-Family. Instead, to me, she seems to fill that void that none of the characters really touch on at the moment, which is tech. I think that's the field she'll be working in, which, given Snyder's talked about his Riddler story coming up, makes me think there'll be overlap there.

But.. Yeah. There was a lot of progression whilst Morrison was leading the Batbooks - as much as I've grown to dislike his writing in general I loved Steph's Batgirl book, and whilst I will happily state that I love Snyder's main Batman book at the moment, to me everything except Tomasi's Batman and Robin and Batwoman's book have largely been very lackluster.

Date: 2013-02-16 12:49 pm (UTC)
chipsnopotatoes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chipsnopotatoes
Damian won't die. Weeds never do. He'll just time travel back twelve years to when he didn't exist.

Date: 2013-02-16 02:41 pm (UTC)
chieflewal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chieflewal
NO! Kill one of the other ones! Tim! Kill Tim! He's wearing FEATHERS!

Date: 2013-02-16 04:25 pm (UTC)
onceaskrull: (YJ: Tim =_=)
From: [personal profile] onceaskrull
OMG you did not just suggest that >(

Date: 2013-02-16 08:18 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Robin oh THIS is going to end well)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
See icon


Date: 2013-02-16 02:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
I figure Morrison is just trying to put the toys back in the same state he left them? Dismantling the LEGO's so to speak.

Date: 2013-02-16 03:33 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
I don't think Damian will die.

But I think he may not be Robin anymore after this (at least for a while).

How's Batman going to react, for instance, if Damian kills Talia (instead of vice-versa)?

Date: 2013-02-16 07:11 pm (UTC)
aeka: (Huntress [sad]:)
From: [personal profile] aeka
How's Batman going to react, for instance, if Damian kills Talia (instead of vice-versa)?

Somehow I don't think that'll affect him the same way that killing Damian would for the fact that Talia started this war on Batman to begin with. When you take into account that the first page of Batman Inc #1 has Bruce standing in a graveyard deciding to quit Batman and subsequently Batman Incorporated means that it has to be a very significant death for him to give all of this up.

Date: 2013-02-16 04:18 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Yeah, but why? If he does kill Damian, if Batman Inc does fail, then what's the moral of his Batman run in general? 'Yeah, Bruce is a great guy, capable of such greatness, but most of the time he's going to be a bit of a screw-up?' Because I don't see how a more negative ending to Inc ends with anything other than Bruce back in Misery!Bats mode like he was throughout a good chunk of the 00's.


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