Superior Spider-Man #11

[cyberghostface]

Smythe is set to be executed for murdering Marla Jameson and Jonah wants Spider-Man to be there just in case anything happens.





Spidey is prepared but Smythe manages to send some of his robots to some of the other prisoners who were wounded prior by Spidey,

Comments

[terrykun]

Dangit... just after Thunderbolts made me really like Fred. :(

[ar_feiniel]

Nothing good lasts forever.

[terrykun]

However bad this might get, I feel he'll still get out better than poor Owen did at Geoff Johns' hands. :(

[flint_marko]

He's going to be one of the main characters in the Superior Foes of Spider-Man title.

[terrykun]

http://marvel.com/news/story/20399/superior_foes_of_spider-man

This article fills me with hope.

I just don't want to see Fred going from 'that guy' who's just out for some respect, cash, and thrills, and turn into one of the slaughter-happy types.

[nefrekeptah]

I'm sorry; who's Fred?

[terrykun]

Boomerang. Thunderbolts made him very likable. (:

[nefrekeptah]

Ah. Well, too early to tell one way or the other. And seeing what Otto did to Boomerang, I don't blame Boomerang for wanting payback.

[captainbellman]

Where the whole Carlie Cooper arc seemed to be written by an obsessive teenage "Shipper", this series appears to have been plotted by an excited 10-year-old who's had too much gatorade.

"And then the guys get AWSUM new costumes that are MAXIMUM DEADLY and they go off to totally KILL Spider-Man."

[nezchan]

Didn't they do something similar with symbiotes back in the day, or am I trippin'?

Mod Note

[salinea]

Do try to criticise the series without coming across as insulting their creators.

Re: Mod Note

[captainbellman]

Surely I'm allowed to criticise the writing method? I'm not making any slurs against Slott, Gage, their characters or their family. I'm pointing out how I immediately react to these written pages, which is to say that I envision them being plotted out by a hyperactive child.

This is no different from when I've pointed out the same thing about, say, many of the episodes of Torchwood (especially "Cyberwoman"), or most if not all of the films of Michael Bay.

Re: Mod Note

[salinea]

You are absolutely allowed to criticise the writing method, but talking about a writer by comparing him to an "obsessive teenager "Shipper"" and to a "excited 10-year-old who's had too much gatorade" is not a criticism of the text. It attacks the writer.

Creators of Torchwoods and big budget Hollywood movies aren't protected by the rules of scans_daily, so you do whatever you want about those. Just not against comics creators.

[nefrekeptah]

Except for the whole "serious questions about living another man's life and the hypocrisy of damming other criminals when once upon a time you weren't that different" part of the story. Which is really the best part of the issue, and not at all "hyperactive twelve-year-old".

[drmcninja]

I'm with this. Especially with that first page, there's this ongoing theme of what it actually means to be spider man, and exploring the whole power/responsibility thing. There are a lot of actually really nice lines running through this book, regardless of its flaws.

Still won't forgive them for implying that Peter would let an innocent girl die to save himself, though.

[coldfury]

Eh. I bet they're going to play that off as influence by Otto's personality.

"That wasn't really Peter, that was Otto's projection of how Peter would act" or something.

[nefrekeptah]

Slott talked about this a little in one of his interviews. According to him, it's nothing new for Spider-Man - he gave an example from the early days, when Doom kidnapped Flash Thompson thinking he was Spider-Man (long story). Peter's first thought was "Sweet! No more Flash!" before realizing that yes, he has to go save him. His doubt was for an instant - he stopped because he realized that no, he couldn't let a little girl die just to save himself.

Also, A) the little girl in question was in a hospital full of trained doctors and was going to be operated on anyway, and B) Otto isn't, and never was, a medical doctor, meaning his participation in the surgery was quite a big risk.

[thatnickguy]

Dude, this is just classic comics stuff. They took the "executed villain makes a comeback" story with "upgraded villains."

This is just simply superhero comics, man. And honestly, I'm kinda digging it.

[thanekos]

Clearly, Smythe wants Boomerang to take up jai alai.

I mean, why else would he give the guy who throws things big bulky armguards?

[skemono]

Been there.

[stillanerd]

So I guess we should now call Adrian Toomes "The Flamingo" now? :-P

Also, I really like when SpOck says "A lifelong criminal, a murderer, doesn't suddenly become a different--" only to realize the irony of his own situation. Just like when he also realized earlier that he has now become "trapped" by Peter's life. And yet, in both cases, he can't admit that he's in the wrong or that much of the "limitations" he blames Peter for he actually brought on himself because of his own arrogance. Classic "Pride go before the fall" setup.

Also, the big gaping flaw that this story has is that in hinges on Jonah, in spite of merely being a city mayor, somehow having enough political clout to not only decommission a federal prison that is run and operated by SHIELD, but only reinstate the death penalty for a single inmate in spite of the fact that the state of New York has not practice capital punishment since 1963, along with it's own State Supreme Court ruling that lethal injection violated its own state constitution, and that death row was deestablished by executive order from the Governor in 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_New_York

Then again, this is the same comic in which Jonah just newly arrives by helicopter at the Raft twice within the same issue. :-P

[randyripoff]

Well, we don't know that the New York of the Marvel Universe doesn't have the death penalty. The 616 New York could be executing criminals right and left for all we know.

[bariman]

this is the same comic in which Jonah just newly arrives by helicopter at the Raft twice within the same issue

Oh crap, I hope Chameleon isn't around again.

[big_daddy_d]

You know..I actually really hope to see the Spider-Slayers in the Amazing Spider-Man movie franchise.

[blunderbuss]

Now here's the thing. If this was a normal Spidey book this'd be another generic 'villains get power-ups' thing.

But since this is a Superior Spiderman comic? This could serve as a great wake-up call to SpOck that THIS is what happens when you're brutal to your enemies but leave them alive; they have the best justification to pull out all the stops to kill you and everything in a ten-mile radius. And frankly it's something that's NEVER brought up in the old 'cross the line' speeches. Fact is, one villains realize what you're doing this sort of thing, they'll do ANYTHING to keep from getting killed/maimed/etc and will escalate the situation into something worse than it already is.

Of course, this is the publisher that killed Nico for stupid HARDCORE DRAMA so maybe I'm being to generous again.

[nefrekeptah]

Maybe the same publisher, but not the same writer. I'd say give it a chance.

[blunderbuss]

I know, but it's SO HARD to like anything in either of the Big Two because one minute there's excellent characters being written very well, and the next it all goes to shit because another writer or event comes up, and the editors let it all happen.

[wizardru]

A tad harsh, but I find myself in agreement to some degree. One of the reasons that I've dropped out of buying comics regularly is that I find it harder and harder to enjoy a particular run when I know that its all for naught. The story can never end, really, and the illusion of a changing status quo becomes harder to accept as you go on.

I mean, I grew up on the fringe of when Marvel stopped updating their universe in real time, so I can remember when Spidey had forward momentum in his life. I accept that it had to freeze at some point, but I find myself harder pressed to 'buy in' to a particular run when I know not just that it will end, but that someone else will likely totally invalidate the entire run and possibly even shit upon what was done before. [I'm looking at you and the New Atom, Rick Remender].

[nefrekeptah]

...which I'd argue is a good thing. The editors allow their writers to take risky, potentially unpopular directions with their franchises. I'd say that it's a much better situations then editorial forcing their stories on the writers.

And one of the things I love about mainstream comics is even if something goes to shit, a new writer with love and respect for the characters will come on and fix it up again.

[blunderbuss]

I don't mind creative freedom to take risks, but there's a difference between making a risky but ultimately visionary story by a writer who wants to change characters that he respects and, say, thinking that the concept of Robin is dumb so they'll write Jason Todd as a jerk and then have him brutually murdered (and then blame him for it). Or deciding that Spiderman being married makes him old so has their marriage sacrified to the devil. Or that Damian was created only to die, despite eventually having great arcs and becoming a beloved character. Those aren't creative risks, those are writers/editors who let their personal biases and dislikes ruin characters and continuity and the good faith of their fans.

Sure, a new writer can come along and fix it, but they shouldn't HAVE to. Good stories and good universes don't need 'fixing' because they should never have been broken in the first place, and not for such petty reasons. I should never be glad that death, one of the most important and impactive narrative tools, can be easily be undone because it would SAVE so many characters.

[nefrekeptah]

At least two of those examples you mentioned were editorial decisions. They were not editors letting writers take risks. And even with that in mind - yes, those ARE creative risks - editors and writers doing what they know will most likely be unpopular with fans because those are the stories they want to tell. That's the definition of risk. The only difference between that and, say, bringing Bucky back from the dead is how well they ended up pulling it off.

And if a new writer comes along to rewrite stories, more often they do it because they WANT to, not because they HAVE to. Good stories can - and have - be made out of bad ones, and bringing back a character from the dead does NOT mean the story - or universe - was "broken" somehow. And why shouldn't you be glad? There have been resurrection stories that are considered classics by many - Green Lantern Rebirth comes to mind.

[sadoeuphemist]

How do you fit Damian Wayne in there, considering that he was killed off by his creator, the guy who wrote him more or less continuously up until the point of his death?

I think trying to discuss this in terms of "creative risk" is sort of meaningless, and so is trying to attribute creative decisions to personal bias or pettiness. These sort of big "derailing" events you're talking about are largely editorial driven. Even if the story is spearheaded by a single creator, the editors are not just "letting it happen", they're actively getting on board. Jim Starlin did not personally set up a pair of 1-900 numbers, y'know? OMD had so many people brainstorming it, and I doubt Morrison requested that DC leak his story to the press and do a half-dozen half-assed tie ins to it.

What I think you're trying to get at is not an issue of creative freedom or editorial or whatever, but of a basic respect for the characters and their character arcs and their lives. I personally don't care about continuity, nor do I believe in the idea of a "good universe" in which these characters have a continuous existence. I believe stories can reference each other, but ultimately exist independently of one another. Like, OMD is a dumb story, but it doesn't necessarily taint every subsequent Spider-Man story. That's just me, tho.

[dr_archeville]

So... why did they let Smythe keep his robot-controlling helmet on? Or is he some weird sort of cyborg and that really is his head now? (And even if it is, they couldn't put a signal block on him?)