Villains Being Awesome: Two-Face Invades Jim Gordon's Retirement Party

[espanolbot]

Following Officer Down and the death of Sarah Essen in No Man's Land, Jim Gordon finally had enough and decided to retire from being Commissioner of the GCPD (at least until One Year Later randomly had him come back, but yeah...). His retirement party is attended by Bruce Wayne in full Idiot Playboy mode and his increasingly annoyed bodyguard Sasha Bordeaux.

Finding that Bruce has wandered off... AGAIN, she decides to follow him into the men's toilets to yell at him for always trying to hide from her, considering Lucius Fox hired her to protect him from the numerous supervillains and criminals that inhabit the city...

Comments

[mrstatham]

As difficult as it was to like Rucka's run at times because Bruce was generally at his most unlikable at certain points, there are characters and things that just make me wish Rucka had stuck around for the New 52 and DC hadn't dicked him over. Sasha is great. His work with Harvey is great. Some of the things he tried to do alongside Brubaker was sensible, like finally moving on from having an increasingly old Jim Gordon as the face of the police force. That right there is one of the things DC really didn't need to reverse; stories like Hush show that if you need to involve Gordon in the story, you could just do it anyway without him being too associated with the police force. Or, if you needed him involved, just state that, even in retirement, he's still a consultant of sorts because he knows so much about the supervillains and Gotham.

In that sense, DC's decision to de-age Jim makes some kind of sense. Now it's a kind-of Dark Knight-esque scenario, though, like where Gary Oldman doesn't actually look *that* much older than Christian Bale, at times.

[lego_joker]

"Hush" did something worth learning from? 0_o

On a more serious note: yeah, I did like parts of Rucka's run (especially with Ivy and Two-Face), but I still say that he's one of the worst Joker writers in the biz. Though, to be fair, he's said before that he doesn't like the Joker, and belongs squarely in the "why hasn't Batman killed this guy yet?" camp.

[mrstatham]

I thought the use of Joker was fine in Gotham Central, although who out of Rucka and Brubaker wrote most of that story (I'm uncertain as to how they collaborated) could say a lot. Brubaker, after all, did The Man Who Laughs, which I thought was a great update of an old story. Joker's tough to get right, though; It's telling that a team like Azzarello and Risso for instance, who presented up with their fair share of utter misogynists, scumbags and monsters in 100 Bullets, used Joker for all of two pages or so in Broken City, thereabouts.

And as much as Hush gets derided, it's a simple blockbuster story and still leagues better than some stories I could name. I did, however, just mean in terms of how Loeb involves Jim - the characters require him, so he's there. It isn't increasingly weird to have an increasingly old man leading the police department in that story, it requires Harvey to get him involved, or Gordon to appear to stop Batman from killing the Joker. In some ways, it feels like a shame that didn't last longer; A Batman on the outs with the GCPD had some mileage in it, but it was clear the writers were uncomfortable.

[benuben]

Hush and derided? Not to say everyone liked it, but it's still very popular story. For some reason.

[mrstatham]

Hanging around on places like CBR, some people just generally tend not to accept it. But then that's because some around there don't tend to accept anything other than Morrison.

I go between liking it and not liking it too much, myself, but it's pretty decent. Lee's art hasn't been as good since, but I guess that's related to his eye surgery.

[darkknightjrk]

My feeling is that in terms of characterization, and just overall introducing all the Bat-Family members in mostly decent ways, it's pretty good. As a mystery, it basically blows.

In fact, I'd say that's the case with pretty much all of Loeb's Batman work.

[randyripoff]

Rucka did the stories with Montoya and Allen. Brubaker's stories were he ones with Driver and Chandler. They collaborated on some of the larger arcs. There's a breakdown at Wikipedia.

Personally, I preferred Brubaker's stories to Rucka's. Not that Rucka's stories were necessarily bad, but I felt they focused way too much on Renee Montoya, particularly in terms of attempting to turn her into a supercop.

[mrstatham]

It is an occasional habit of Rucka's that I will absolutely forgive because there just aren't enough female characters in comics that I perceive to be as well-written as his, but.. Yeah. I can see it. But again, female characters have an overall tendency to do terribly in the Bat-Comics, and Rucka managed to avoid repeating himself when he did something similar with Kate Kane.

[espanolbot]

I'd say that it was less Renee being turned into a supercop, more that her underlying issues where starting to have a major strain on her personality, not entirely helped by her getting temporarily possessed by Wrath during the tie-in issue to Day of Vengence.

She remained as competant as she always did, but as her temper began to get worse she actually became not as by-the-book as she had been prior to getting outted by Harvey. She was more willing to use violence to get her own way, for example, be it beating up Jim Corrigan (corrupt forensics investigator and semi-gangster) to get AI to clear her partner or just straight up going all police brutality on the Alchemist after he'd burnt her with acid and killed numerous other cops.

[darkknightjrk]

I have to wonder, though, how much of that was planned--did Rucka have her go through that violent phase just so she can become the new Question?

[lego_joker]

"Soft Targets" is the exception that proves the rule, and yeah, I credit its Joker more to Brubaker than Rucka. Though, I thought that "The Man Who Laughs" was rather mediocre (it felt like Brubaker stuffed it too full of cross-continuity references, and failed to put his own stamp on the character). My respect for Brubaker's Joker comes more from "Dead Reckoning".

[ensiform]

I loved everything about Gotham Central, still think it's one of the best GN stories of all time, and thought the Joker portrayal was terrific. I don't understand what people think was wrong with it.

[espanolbot]

I loved the entire series too, though I think that the issue people had with the Joker's appearance was that he didn't die after Maggei Sawyer shot him five times in the chest... which I think actually fit with the story.

Within the story the Joker doesn't even consider the GCPD to be players in his game against Batman, which is something that the cops fear might be something Batman thinks too. They spend the entire time trying to keep up with the two, even though their higher ups make them waste time and resources by doing things like randomly arresting a Joker fanclub to make it look like they're "doing more".

The fact that, at the end of the day, it ends with at least seven or so cops getting killed (the majority in their own HQ, and one sullying himself by attempting to beat information out of the Joker, potentially ruining his career if he'd survived) and with the Joker STILL alive and kicking... it kind of does suggest that the GCPD aren't as big of a factor in the fight between Batman and the Joker like they thought they were.

[icon_uk]

I liked the idea of Sasha, because Bruce having a "minder" makes sense, and has the potential for a fun subplot, but the speed with which she went from "moderately skilled martial artist" to "costumed adventurer", and then more or less randomly to not just a member of but LEADER of an international espionage operation like Checkmate just made me quirk an eyebrow and move on with an "Ohhhhhhhh kay!"

[mrstatham]

I tend to imagine that how screwed up Checkmate would have been in the wake of Max Lord, Infinite Crisis and the OMAC stuff would have justified Sasha's quick promotion, really - unless I'm remembering how she got to the Black Queen spot incorrectly. It's unlikely, but given the organisation would be in disarray and it was reorganised to have four controlling members, I can just about see it. It's just odd she was suddenly promoted to be on the same scale as Waller, Alan Scott and Mister Terrific, I guess.

Again, Rucka has a very slight tendency to have his protagonists maybe be a little too savvy. There's definitely elements of it with Sasha, there's elements of it in Forever of Lazarus, and there's elements of it in Dex of Stumptown. But, compared to some other writer tics, I'm more than willing to forgive it.

[jaybee3]

That was my problem with Sasha too. She went from bodyguard to "killed in jail" (a ridiculous idea since she was STILL in jail after Bruce's innocence about Vesper had proven even though she had been arrested and never tried as his "accomplice") so she could get plastic surgery then she became a cyborg and then head of Checkmate and we were supposed to buy this was the same character.

But that's par for the course in DC thinking that no character can ever be a mere civilian (except Jim Gordon) - they all have to become costumed adventurers. So Sasha, Bruce's bodyguard, in Murder:Fugitive becomes the Queen of Checkmate with a new face, Crispus Allen the cop who arrested Bruce in Murder:Fugitive becomes the next Spectre and Renee, the OTHER cop who arrested Bruce and Sasha in Murder:Fugitive becomes the next Question. Let's not even go into Lucy Lane, former stewardess, becoming an army major and a super-villian or Sam Lane, former farmer turned commissioned officer turned Secretary of Defense turned four-star genocidal warmonger.

[damar148]

I like that one cop pulling out two handguns. That's a Gotham veteran alright.

[his_spiffynesss]

It's an established trope cops usually have a backup weapon. Though in Gotham I'd expect them to have a second backup gun, and a taser and collapsible baton on them at all times.

[icon_uk]

Plus rubber soled shoes, kevlar underoos and full spectrum anti-toxin kit.

[icon_uk]

Anyone else disappointed that this didn't involve Harvey leaping out of a cake wearing nothing but a layer of chocolate icing and a smile?

[lieut_kettch]

Knowing Harvey, it would half chocolate and half vanilla icing, split down the middle.

[cyberghostface]

I like it when Two-Face is like this and not finding a way to be horrible regardless of how the coin flips.

[beyondthefringe]

Yes!
This is a perfect example of the Two-Face dichotomy, when he's distinctly torn between his good and evil aspects, when the flip of a coin makes the difference between a murder spree and straight up respecting and honoring an old friend and going peacefully when he's had his say.

Any story where the "good" side just results in a less murderous Two-Face is missing the point, that it's essentially Good Harvey and Bad Two-Face, and they're polar opposites, and he's always standing at a crossroads. When done right, he's one of my favorite Bat villains. When done improperly, he's just tedious.

Of course, I also like Penguin as a bird-crazed mob boss, Riddler as an obsessive private investigator, Killer Croc as a tormented monster with at least half a brain, a Joker who's both funny and terrifying, and a Scarecrow who combines fear with brains. And a Poison Ivy who's seductive yet sympathetic as she plays out the ecoterrorist/plant savior card. I'm weird like that, I like villains with depth.

And I hate Man-Bat.

[qalchemist]

I agree with everything you just said except for your Man-Bat hate.

It's okay, Kirkstrom. He didn't mean it!

[silicondream]

I wonder what happened to Harvey's henchmen? Did they surrender with him, or just high-tail it out of there as soon as they saw which way the coin landed?

Working for Two-Face must be even riskier than working for the Joker. Maybe he preferentially recruits gambling addicts or some such.

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking he flips the coin every time he hires a henchman. If the good side comes up he tells them, "You never know how the coin will turn up, so always have an escape plan" and if the evil side turns up, he says "Don't worry about it. It's just a gimmick."

[lieut_kettch]

I like to think that Babs also held back and waited for the coin toss, and when it came up pristine side up, she surreptitiously put up her hand to her earpiece and said, "This is Oracle. All operatives: stand down."