Invincible #110

[cyberghostface]

Trigger warning for rape.



They fight...

Comments

[nyadnar17]

I am interested to see if this is the start of a real discussion about male sexual abuse at the hands of females or if this is simply going to be a gender swap rape tale done for shock value

[shadowpsykie]

i agree. honestly, the way this was depicted was both very powerful and tasteful.... if rape depiction can ever be described as tasteful... maybe i am even using the wrong term... i suppose "non gratuitous" could work, but it sounds wrong...

[silverhammerman]

It's like every time the Viltrumites show up you can just see Robert Kirkman's worst instincts as a writer come to the fore.

[roguezombie]

Yeah, I was just thinking how I haven't enjoyed this series since the Robot/Monster Girl storyline.

[insolent_one]

She couldn't simply have gone for one of the other Viltrumite males? I mean fine, Mark is relatively speaking the weakest among them and therefore probably the only one she could force, but this seems like a "spiteful bitch" moment more than out of her duty to the procreation of her race.

[deepspaceartist]

She specificly states that they want Viltrumite half-breeds. Going for a dude of her own species would defeat the purpose. Though apparently she feels only three quarters Viltrumite is good enough.

[cainofdreaming]

Wasn't the problem with Viltrumites that they couldn't get children together anymore? And if this doesn't apply to half-breeds then why haven't they instantly recalled all the kids back home for breeding purposes when they come of age?

Guess she might just be mad, in addition to the regular Viltrumite dysfunctions.

[freezer]

IIRC, the problem was there weren't enough full-blooded Viltrumites to continue the race without some serious inbreeding.

[thatnickguy]

I'm really torn on this. I've been a big fan of Invincible since the beginning. It has been overly violent at times, but it's unique from other superhero comics in that sense because we see what kind of real damage and destruction someone with super powers would do to the world around them and other people.

And it definitely has been dark and controversial before, like Bulletproof and his girlfriend killing his parents.

On the other hand, this is just...I don't know. I feel like it's going too far. Maybe it's the overuse of rape in comics and pop culture as the worst thing to depict - which it is.

That said, I actually like how this is depicted. It's well done because it's portrayed both as a rape AND a fight scene. It's clear that Mark is completely unwilling and it is a frightening, disheartening scene.

Part of me hopes this raises awareness on rape and rape culture, that it's never okay, even if the roles are reversed or if they may physically be possible to have an erection, that doesn't mean they mentally want it.

[shadowpsykie]

i agree with the others who have posted on here about how i hope this is the begining (at least in this book) of a conversation about rape. Especially Male rape (in this case female on male rape). So few men report it.

and so often male-as-rape victim is often played for comedy. Even the Rape of Apollo was some what played up as funny. And do we even have to mention Kyle Rayner's "Muey Bueno" comment?

As much as i hated that arc, (especially how,many people tried to rationalize it, because it was done in a way that was "subtle" (and I call it subtle because people to this day still think he wasn't raped because it didn't "Look like Rape")), Dick Grayson's rape by Tarantula in Devin Grayson's run on Nightwing actually dealt with the ramifications OF that rape.

It's clear here, that this was a rape. It was violent and he said in no uncertain terms, he didn't want this. And the panels of the rape itself were well done in particular the last row, first panel, all you see is his neck and chin, but he is CLEARLY looking away.

This calls into mind another thing that comes up with women as well but is a little more "Obvious with me". the moment when the victim doubts "I said no, but i was aroused, if it was rape how could i become aroused." Arousal is an automatic response that the person has no control over and that is somethig that victims don't always understand (and something rapists use to justify the fact that "they enjoyed it")

This response turned out to be a lot longer than i Intended. anyways.

yeah i am hoping they deal with the ramifications of this event in this comic and it is not just sweapt under the rug with him being mildy annoyed the next time he sees her......

take a look at this video, it depicts nicely the sterotypes and stigmas around male rape https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOmlcOFjIEA

(frozen)

[joetuss]

The first thing i thought when i saw this is they probably should have made her less attractive because most men wouldnt mind being humped by someone that looked like that

[obsidianwolf]

I'm really on the fence about this as others have said it is a very well done scene that clearly shows that it is rape but on the other it feels really freaking out of place in this title to me. I am also kind of bothered by how long the sequence is from the moment she shows up and makes her intentions known to the end takes up half the issue.

I'm also extremely worried about this getting the follow up it needs to since the next main story line is going to be one that is going to have a big impact on this title's world which means unfortunately that this plot line will probably be shoved on the back burner for a while.

Not to mention the torrent of "She's hot he should be happy" offensive jokes that are going to show up in discussions about this issue.

[shadowpsykie]

GOING TO SHOW UP? look at the few posts above....

[md84]

Is it bad that I sort of expected this might happen the moment the whole "breed with Earthlings" deal was made? In a twisted way, it makes sense that the one Viltrumite most violently opposed to mating with humans would decide to kill two birds with one stone by taking what she needs from Mark, completing her mission and getting payback at the same time.

I was really hoping the story wouldn't go in this direction, but now that it has, I'm morbidly curious to see if Kirkman has the chops to pull it off in a tasteful and meaningful manner.

[arilou_skiff]

Yeah, I'm not sure this is going to work, but... Good try I guess?

[venatosapiens]

So, I kind of hate to bring this up, but in those quick cutting panels, that silhouette of the Viltrumite women? Holy crap. She's drawn like a 13 year old's conception of a porn star. She's practically a stick figure with giant breasts and a strange, strange neck. It's weird.

Also, I haven't been keeping up with this title, but I really hope this doesn't turn into a thing where whoever Mark is currently seeing blames him for "cheating," since that's a singularly ugly plot trope that seems to come up whenever this particular scenario plays out in superhero comics (like that time with Ollie.)

[obsidianwolf]

Actually his love interest just dumped him in the first half of the issue because of real issues brought to the fore by something that wasn't his fault and in typical comic book fashion he doesn't blurt out the few words of ____ did it and lied to you about things that would explain why he had vanished for six months and wanted her to go somewhere safe where ____ wouldn't know where she was.

[big_daddy_d]

So.... wow. Just.. wow. Kirkman is one of those I trust with handling issues of rape, but.. damn is it still a shock to the system. I never really liked when characters are raped in development and not in background. It sounds weird and I know I worded it wrong, hopefully someone can help me out here in what I'm trying to say. Honestly I'm still shocked to the point of not being able to come up with a thought that makes sense.

Finally gathered my thoughts here

[big_daddy_d]

Rape as a story element.. if it is done, I prefer it as something that happened in back story and not as recent incident on page. It is very uncomfortable to see, especially to characters a person likes. I'm no prude, I've read stories with unapologetic content and subjects that are uncomfortable, yet in your face, yet serves a purpose and is handled well and in a mature fashion. In a few Dark-Hunters books and even The League, there are male protagonists who have endured a brutal history of sexual abuse at the hands of both men and women. It is tragic, uncomfortable yet it endures you to them. You witness their strength of character through their journey and the payoff being the well deserved happy ending and people getting what they deserve.

I've said before, Kirkman is someone I trust to handle a subject such as this. I've haven't read all of Invincible but managed to read a few arcs, unfortunately not in order. I've found the book to be enjoyable and when it comes to Viltrumite fights...jesus it makes the fights in Man of Steel look like pillow fights.

I respect what Kirkman is trying to go for and even the portrayal. Past fights I've seen involving Mark and a Viltrumite, the Viltrumites are displayed as being levels above him in power and that is one of the scary things about assaults of any kind, the helplessness and being overpowered. For all his strength and power, Mark was overpowered and ended up in a situation that no doubt left him powerless. It is something that will weigh heavily on a person's mind and make them question themselves, the what if's, sometimes even blaming themselves.

Now I haven't caught up on anything Invincible around 100 and onward, again been slowly catching up and thank god my library has the huge collections of Invincible books. Now while the series is not shy with violence, I've yet to see any.. graphic sexual content of any kind up to this point so I have to ask, has there been any or is this the first time it's been displayed so graphically? That's what strikes me as odd.. why rape? Why not.. I don't know something beautiful or hell erotic to the likes of which would have us "teeheeing?" Something between lovers? As someone else pointed out, this just seems so.. out of place, but again I'm the person who is playing catch up.

Another thing

[big_daddy_d]

Is this also the start of an arc, the middle, or what?

Re: Finally gathered my thoughts here

[obsidianwolf]

While the book has made it clear sex is happening, just happened, or about to happen it has never been anywhere near as graphic as this rape scene was.

Infact I can't think of any consensual activity that was ever shown in more than one or two panels. So it does make the half the issue nature of the whole violent sequence stand out a lot.

(frozen)

[zaqari_waliz]

Once, at a party when I was 19, this girl (who was 16) cornered me when I tried to go to bed. I was exceptionally drunk. "Don't know where I am, can't feel my lips, just want to be unconscious in a soft comfy bed" drunk. She started pawing at me and I told her to leave me alone. She kept pawing, more aggressively, laughing (as if we were playing a game). She pushed me into bed (I was going there anyway) and we more or less wrestled around, which is to say she continued to try to coax me and I pushed her away and told her to leave me alone. She wrestled our pants off in the process and mounted me. Despite being younger, smaller, and weaker than me, she was being pretty aggressive. I remember specifically telling her "_____, NO," the way you might tell your dog or a child that you're not playing around. She was grinding on me and slipped herself onto me. She had my hands held down, clasping them into hers. I'd say I more tolerated this than anything, too drunk to do or feel anything about it. Afterwards she collapsed on top of me and we fell asleep. It seems a lot of people would call this rape. I did for weeks, and not necessarily in a joking way because it technically was. I was legitimately angry, because she'd been targeting me for some time and I didn't want to risk getting her pregnant (she'd joked about it before, and I suspected it wasn't really a joke). But I wasn't traumatized or anything. And that's where the last panel bugs me, unless I'm reading it incorrectly. Is his posture and expression due to the fact that he feels some kind of regret since he has a girlfriend, thinking it's his fault or something? Because I saw it as an expression of his having just endured some trauma, which is less believable. A woman (or, you know, an aggressive teenage girl) engaging your genitals, even without your consent, just isn't particularly traumatizing. The dominance may be somewhat mentally, but sex (specifically, physical vagina on penis sex, even if it's forced) doesn't usually cause a man a great deal of discomfort-- unless she has some kind of super-vagina or something, in which case, okay, ouch. But I really want to see more of this character after that last panel. Because if the writer's going for some rape gender-swap thing here, there are substantial reasons that's weak. Reasons involving the physical natures of sex parts. Vagina on penis rape is not penis in vagina rape. If it's a matter of will, then honestly, to a man? Well, I don't get a choice in paying my taxes either. But paying taxes isn't all that uncomfortable so I'm not going to get all traumatized about it. And maybe the same applies with women sometimes, maybe sometimes rape's not painful and it's just the dominance. If I'm seeing anguish like this (again, unless I'm reading it incorrectly), I'm not expecting a violation of will. I'm expecting something more substantial. Pain. Would slavery have been as bad without the lashings? No. It still would have been bad, of course, terrible. But don't you forget for a second that those lashings make a hell of a difference. Prisoners will tell you imprisonment sucks. But it sucks way more when you're being stabbed.

(frozen)

[mrstatham]

I'm fully expecting this to get frozen since it is utterly disagreeable, but I have to utterly disagree with the idea that this isn't traumatic for the character and wouldn't be traumatic for someone in real life. Without downplaying what you experienced, the context and circumstances sound really rather different, for starters.

(frozen) Mod Note!

[icon_uk]

This post is frozen and is under discussion by the Mod Team

[blackruzsa]

The fact that they even used "Man up" as a line should make it obvious that Kirkman was making a pretty solid statement about male rape and how NO MEANS NO.

"Man up" is one of the most disgusting things you could say to a male rape survivor. It's a statement that needs to be ripped apart and thrown in the garbage. I like that they used "man up" to emphasize how this reflects on rape in real life and that every single panel shows just how much Mark hates every moment of it.

[mrstatham]

This. I don't entirely have faith in Kirkman to be able to pull off a careful enough examination of the concept following this issue and how traumatised Mark will be following this, but I do feel like Kirkman's intent in approaching this is not shock value and that, as you say, he's looking to at least try investigating the idea thoroughly.