Hulk #4

[arbre_rieur]

"I used to think that hardcore Legion fans were the most unforgiving, impossible-to-please readers. Then I started writing the Hulk." -- Mark Waid







The Hulk reverts to Banner, and Maria Hill's fear about the transformation cementing his brain damage proves true:

Comments

[althechi]

If the Enterprise computer can tell when Anan 7 is feeding it a computer-generated voice, a guy with hearing so good it gives him sonar ought to be able to tell the difference too.

[drtechnobabel]

I didn't think about it when I read it, but you're right. How could anything auditory-based fool Murdock when he can hear people's heart-rates to tell if they're lying (despite the fact that it's not entirely the most reliable way to do so IRL)?

[simiansyndicate]

Because see that thing Matt's holding? It's a mobile phone. He's only as good as the initial point of contact; were he in person, he'd know he'd been fooled. But I doubt that a cell phone could pick up on someone's heartbeat, and given the amazing lifelike abilities of the LMDs, I'm sure SHIELD's audio-devices are more than capable of sounding realistic when filtered through phone signals.

Logical, no?

[drtechnobabel]

Good point, to both you and freezer. I'd be willing to accept that.

[terrykun]

I'd wager that for Matt, listening to recorded music or phone-transmitted speech is like us trying to look at a painting through a layer of saran-wrap and reflective tape.

[thosefew]

Bruce, you sound a bit strange. Anything wrong?

What? Uh, the helicarrier's going through a tunnel, I...ye...go...da...

[freezer]

I suppose you could fanwank it so that the phone connection was just low quality enough to mask its nature?

Edit: Ninja'd!

[althechi]

Just to be fair to you since time wasn't, that sounds pretty valid. Fair enough.

[drtechnobabel]

"Bruce Banner may be smart again... but just HOW smart?"

Hopefully smart enough to help you find a way to stop the incursions without blowing up other planets.

Actually, that has me thinking: why hasn't Tony invited Arno to join the Illuminati? He's about as smart as Tony, but thinks differently than him and as shown here, can actually IMPROVE on Tony's work, so he'd be an immense help to them. Even if Tony has suspicions about Arno's true intentions for whatever reason, you'd think a multiversal threat would be enough for him to put it aside for a little while. Even assuming Arno actually is evil, he'd still be smart enough to see that not stopping the incursions would cause the multiverse, and thus him, to die, so he'd probably be willing to help regardless. Hell, considering the way the Illuminati acts without Arno, the actual morality of whatever plans he could conceivably come up with might not even matter to them either way. And if it really doesn't work out for whatever reason, they could always mindwipe him and dump him back in Troy. So really, what has Tony got to lose by letting his brother help out?

[captainbellman]

You're thinking of in-universe solutions to in-universe problems. The key impediment to your suggestion is out-of-universe, and it's this: do you really think Jonathan Hickman would be willing to interrupt his heavy-handed, melodramatic "We're all terrible people" incursions BS in order to introduce Arno, a character from a light-hearted comic involving fun adventures and humour, and who reflects that?

[drtechnobabel]

Yeah, I'm probably overthinking all of this, but in my opinion thinking of in-universe solutions to in-universe problems is what a writer should be doing in the first place.

[punishermax]

Sorry, New Avengers and Avengers are 2 of the best comics going right now and I really fail to see how dealing with dark issues is 'heavy handed'/ Not every single comic can be Marvel Adventures (which was seriously not that great)

Also "we;re all terrible people?" how on earth did you get that? You realize Cap is very clearly meant to embody the good and pure of all heroes and he's fighting back right? NA is an examination of heroes doing shitty things to keep the planet alive.

I'll never understand SD insistence that every comic has to be WACKY FUN TIMES HIJINKS, I feel like you guys want comics to stay back in the Silver Age.

[ablackraptor]

The 'we're all terrible people' thing actually sounds like how you're trying to describe the book; the Illuminati are doing bad things for good reasons, while Cap objects to it, and it analyses if doing bad things for good reasons is really heroic on their part or a sign of them not trying hard enough to find other solutions. In other words, it analyses if they're terrible people or not. Describing it as 'we're all terrible people' isn't that inaccurate as a quick sum up of it.

And, while I can't speak for everyone, I don't think people want every comic to be 'wacky fun times hijinks'. Rather, a number of people prefer books that make them laugh or smile, rather than books that are serious and deal with analysing things, especially since many books that try to be serious and such tend to go too far in this direction and end up being emotionally draining or rely on the darkness alone to make people enjoy it.

[doctor_spanky]

My biggest problem with Hickman's Avengers isn't that it "deals with dark issues / is heavy handed," it's that it's boring. It doesn't do what great comics do and turn real-life problems into exaggerated super-powered metaphors, it just invents a random disempowerment scenario to drag the characters through the standard "moral conflicts, compromise, 'the good guys are bad guys'" mentality that dominates movies, TV, comics etc. Mark Waid described it as "life-denying cynicism," and he's right. That one party scene Hickman wrote with all the Avengers bro-ing out is more interesting than the rest of his run

Because there's nothing to connect Hickman's run to reality, I can't really engage with it. And because it has such a bleak, cynical aesthetic, I don't want to engage with it. It's all empty calories like a candy bar, but it doesn't taste good

[captainbellman]

"It doesn't do what great comics do and turn real-life problems into exaggerated super-powered metaphors"

I love that you write this while using (I am hoping) a panel from Junji Ito's "Uzumaki" as your avatar, as it's a book that fits that description to a T.

[akodo_rokku]

I hope and pray that at some point Hickman and (and Dan Slott for that matter) will get back onto projects that fit him. I loved his Fantastic Four/FF run for example.

[draganoche]

I'm guessing that because when Hickman was plotting this out Arno wasn't even introduced yet though he may get involved in the future since Banner who was much more prominent is now just becoming part of the team and that was only after figuring out that the Illuminati was back

[drtechnobabel]

That would make sense. From what I've heard, Hickman sounds like the kind of guy who plans his stories way in advance, but isn't really good at adapting when other people's storylines introduce elements that could affect something in his own plot. He might not have considered the possibility of Arno joining the Illuminati even after he was introduced.

[tugrul]

Is there a reason the Avengers are being colossal douchebags towards Maria Hill? I read the entire issue prior to this or before that and Maria was nothing but concerned for Bruce's safety and health.

This coming from someone who really dislikes Maria.

[q99]

Probably just history and her not coming to them despite knowing Banner had such a big problem.

[wizardru]

That assumes the benefit of the doubt, something that 'tried to arrest Captain America forcefully', 'kidnaps and forcefully interrogates Spiderman', 'Willing to let innocents die to follow rules' and 'tries to legally prevent the Avengers from reforming' Deputy Director Maria Hill might not benefit from, where the Avengers are concerned.

Hill may have grown as a character (and is a three-dimensional character)...but the Avengers have little reason to trust her implicitly, given their history with her and SHIELD, as of late. Hell, Stark worked with her closely as Director and knows what SHIELD is capable of when they feel morally justified in doing so.

Hill may be entirely sincere in wanting to help Banner, but Daredevil sums it up pretty clearly: SHIELD has been compromised more than once and they tend not to be trustable, especially if they have their own agenda.

[shadur]

And they ALWAYS have their own agenda.

[mrstatham]

Right, but it's hardly like the Avengers are the best crowd to handle Banner, either. One of the leadership figures was recently responsible for shooting him into space. But hey, convenient mind-wipes forgive all manner of sins.

[shadowpsykie]

actually, Bruce has brought that up to them several times, recently actually. (part of the reason he has Daredevil as his foot in the door)

[shadowpsykie]

perfectly stated. I mean, yeah, she HAS totally grown as a character, and is a much more 3d character.... but i wouldn't trust her to tell me the sky is blue and the water wet.

[shadur]

Well, at least Tony is starting to acknowledge that he has a terrible track record with regards to making wise decisions...

[aperturedreams]

Wait...Arno can't talk.

[ablackraptor]

I think that's a mistake on whoever puts in the word balloons' part; Arno can 'talk' using an electronic voicebox, but they forgot to give him distinctive word balloons to signal this.

[q99]

You know, my impression of the first few issues was, "Ah, I guess after all that smart-Banner stuff, they decided they didn't want to go that route and now they're going to do dumb-Banner...", but no, now it's "Ah, the dumb Banner stuff was just a lead-up to *super* smart Banner stuff!"

[leoboiko]

How is Matt more "objective" than Jen?

[cainofdreaming]

It's probably just that he doesn't have a familial bond. I dunno how the fact that he's less likely to punch Hill into low Earth orbit if things go fubar work in Bruce's favour in this scenario, though.

[ablackraptor]

I think it comes down to his relationship with Bruce. Jen is far more likely to try and interfere if she thinks Bruce is risking something since the two are really close, while Matt, who's got a positive relationship with Bruce but isn't as emotionally close with him as Jen is, is more likely to let Bruce make his own decisions and is less likely to interfere.

[thatnickguy]

I know Waid's a better writer than this, but I swear, if he uses the "We only use 10% of our brain..." trope...

[cainofdreaming]

Yeah, it's more like 23%. Or whatever the Mythbusters junior team got as result when they tested that. I do not really remember the exact numbers, but it was around there.

At any given moment, that is. Yes, we use all of it, but not at the same time.

[donnblake]

Hang on- star-eyes? Is Bruce starting to develop Captain Marvel style cosmic awareness?

[sir_razorback]

I like how they brought in the brain surgeon with the personal connection to Bruce back from issue #1. Did they bring back the anesthesiologist, too? (At least that's how it looks with just two scans to go by and no name given.)

[mrstatham]

I'm sorry, but Tony Stark of all people has no room to scream at people to get away when it comes to Bruce Banner. You launched the man into fucking space because you and your super-secret-shitty cabal of buddies decides in your great wisdom to blast him off, Tony.

As for calling YOURSELF the 'competent'? You wiped your own fucking mind and couldn't restore THAT correctly, you fucking clod.

Also, yes, we get it, Waid doesn't like Maria Hill. Could he get over it anytime soon?

[ablackraptor]

Having not read the series myself and basing this just on what I'm seeing here, I'm not seeing anything to suggest Waid doesn't like Hill. Its apparent we're meant to sympathise with her, she appears to honestly care about Bruce's well being, and she's not written with the usual 'do as I command' manner she's often written with.