Identity Crisis #6

[history79]

10 pages of 30

Comments

[mrstatham]

I remember reading the commentary for the TPB and Meltzer being really hyped that they had basically made a King Lear reference with that page with Dr Light, and that they were enthused that they had made readers worry what that smirk might mean and what came next.

Yeah, thanks a fucking bunch. You just consigned a lighthearted goofy villain to being Dr McRapey Rape forever more. I'm not excited to see where Light's shenanigans take him next, I'm worried about who he's going to sexually abuse.

Also, Ollie's argument might have carried some kind of weight if he hadn't played that "YOU THINK BATMAN HASN'T DONE THE SAME THING TO US?" card, which is clearly meant to suggest the moments of Batdickery he'd suffered prior to this like Tower of Babel, but you aren't selling it WHEN YOUR SHITTY RETCON CAN BE INTERPRETED AS PRETTY MUCH BEING THE CAUSE OF ANY DICKISHNESS FROM THE CHARACTER, BRAD.

[lego_joker]

That image of Batman on the cover is clearly Bruce after he'd read the script for this issue. *Nods*

[mrstatham]

"Oh god, the level of bullshit in this one is off the charts. At least I'll get a good meme or two in a couple years even though everyone hates me."

[reveen]

Dead End? I get it! Cos lots of characters are dead! Haha!

And what's the deal with Watchtower food?

Q: "What are you doing to him?"

[7dialsmystery]

A: "He tried to escape! We're subduing him!"

See, you people could have avoided this if you were better liars.

Re: Q: "What are you doing to him?"

[icon_uk]

In fairness (and that's a bloody hard thing to type as regards this series), lying to Batman rarely ends well either.

[icon_uk]

"You think he hasn't done the same thing to us?"

Actually, no I'm pretty sure he never has Ollie.

[jaybee3]

Which is exactly what Geoff Johns (in Infinite Crisis and JLA: Crisis of Conscience) did go going forward - Batman's paranoia, his Bat-dickery, the coming and going of the Bat-jerk, the creation of Brother Eye - all because of his subconscious distrust of the other heroes because of IC. Meltzer gave DC an out to make Batman act like a jerk anytime they felt like it and have an explanation if anyone complained it was out of character. The mind-wipe.

Another reason to loathe this mini-series.

[locuatico]

i just love the phrase the phrase he uses. so, because batman MIGHT have done something like this, they are justified to do the same? If batman had ever done something even similar to this, something for the so called "greater good", wouldn't he have done something to stop the Joker permanently?
I mean, the fact that Dr. Light raped Sue was awful (and awful writting), but The Joker has done some truly despicable things, and it is obvious at this point that the system is not going to stop Joker.
this statement is just stupid "OH, Batman, we cannot trust him, he is willing to do anything for the greater good. he has done stuff we would never forgive. if he was in the same situation he would have done the same". NO, he would not. if he has not tried to mind wipe Joker already, he is not going to fall for any of that "greater good" crap.

[jaybee3]

To be fair that was the one line that rang true. Not from Bruce's perspective (no, he wouldn't do that) from Ollie's. Ollie always seems to find a way to blame his guilt on someone else, to imagine someone else is as bad as he is. It's perfectly in character for him to say that.

[mrstatham]

You can almost see them looking at the work people like Rucka did with the Murderer/Fugitive storyline (which, while unsavoury in parts in terms of Batman's treatment of Sasha Bordeaux, had a pretty good resolution in terms of him still needing Bruce Wayne and, you know, being a decent person) and actually developing him as a character and just having a Blazing Saddles-esque "NEVERMIND THAT SHIT" moment when Meltzer proposed this.

Because, you know, Batman shouldn't be an amazingly heroic but still flawed individual. As in, you know, *human*.

[locuatico]

here is the difference with Tower of Babel. As superman himself has admitted, if he was to go bonkers for whatever reason, earth is doomed. So he gave Bruce a fragment of Kryptonite so he could use it to stop him.

Bruce did not secretly hide the kryptonite, he did not lie to Clark about it. Clark gave it to him.

Tower of Babel was done with the reasoning that, if the JL were to go evil or be mind controlled, they needed a way to stop them. which is actually a real concern they could have. this is a plot point in the DCAU. if the JL became evil, earth is screwed.
that is doing something for "the greater good", and people can complain all they want about how Batman should have tell his FRIENDS about it(which he should), point still stands: he was not entirely unjustified in his concern.

Ollie and the others violated Dr. Lights and Bruces rights as human beings and then took the moral high ground claiming that they did the right thing and that Bruce was noone to judge them. They took the role of Judge, Jury and Executioner and then pat themselves in the back afterwards.

So no, Ollie, do not come with me with that "do you think he didn't do similar stuff?" because no, he has not, he has never taken the law by his own hands. he has ALWAYS stopped himself at the last second. something you did not do...TWICE in the same night.

[locuatico]

probably. but one quick look from anyone else and they can tell he is full of S***.
Batman has a general rule that he is not Judge Dredd. his job is not to act as executioner and set sentences on people. his job is to capture criminals and let Gotham do the rest.

Oliver and the rest, when they mind swipped both of them, were acting as Judge, Jury and executioner. they took the law in their hands and decided that both of them should be done this horrible thing.

Re: Q: "What are you doing to him?"

[locuatico]

case in point, everytihn that has happened in the next ten or so years after this was published.

[jaybee3]

I don't disagree. And what's worse if that except for Zatanna none of them were ever called on it - even when they appeared with Batman in a comic. Heck, Superman, Wonder Woman and none of Bruce's extended family (outside Selina) even knew about it. When St. Barry came back to life, Wally never even mentioned it to him. DC plants this explosive bomb and never follows up (except for the mini JLA arc Geoff Johns wrote which basically only acknowledged Batman remembered and wanted nothing to do with the one who voted - which was never followed up on except with Zatanna).

[lego_joker]

I dunno, I kinda think that Murderer/Fugitive (and to a lesser extent, parts of NML) left Bruce pre-ruined even before IC. His treatment of Helena during NML was the first time I've *ever* wanted to sock him in the jaw, and his treatment of Sarah during Murderer/Fugitive was even worse while having even *less* reasoning (at least, I think. He wasn't going through some extraordinarily huge trauma before the frame-up hit, was he?).

[bradygirl_12]

So all this is the reason we've gotten the rude, petty, condescending Bat-dick all these years, making him almost completely unlikeable? Great, another thing to chalk up to this lousy event.

[reveen]

"I'm sorry Dick"
"I'm sorry Tim"
"I'm sorry reader"

[drtechnobabel]

Also, when Ollie's talking about the night Bruce caught them, I got the feeling that Ollie thinks the only reason Bruce was pissed at them was because he didn't come up with the 'mindwipe and reprogram supervillains' idea first. Specifically the 'Bruce would never stand for it. Not without his say-so' line.

[drtechnobabel]

You know Ollie, your whole speech about doing what's necessary to protect one's identity might hold more weight if your own mask wasn't so tiny it could fit between two fingers. Oh, and if you ever shaved that super-distinctive goatee that no one except Oliver Queen wears anymore.

[icon_uk]

Up to a point, this came AFTER a good deal of the Bat-dickish moments like his general attitude to his family in the likes of No Man's Land, or inability to communicate with any of them about anything to do with emotions , which are now sort of excused post facto.

[matrix_dragon]

Ah yes. The moment Green Arrow went from 'Bit of a Jerk, but you know he means well', to 'Arrogant, hypocritical filth.'

Hooray for 'Realism'! :(

Re: Q: "What are you doing to him?"

[7dialsmystery]

Dr Light was resisting arrest, Bruce! Honest!

[icon_uk]

Perhaps he works on the notion that people will assume that it's SO obvious it's TOO obvious?

[starwolf_oakley]

When I first read this, and how Bruce came back because of Sue, that meant Bruce was glad Ralph had "a life" as part of "The Life." Bruce Wayne is aware of how screwed up he is, and Batman can *really* tell how screwed up he is compared to the rest of the Justice League. If that's the reason Batman "hates" the JLA, well, that just makes Batman look petty. (I'm all about Batman not looking petty.)

Sometimes you accept "Because he's Batman." He knew right away *what* Zatanna was doing to Light and *why* because he's Batman. And he rushed to stop them because he's Batman. And you can imagine him thinking "I thought, I sometimes even considered... Harvey Dent was one of my BEST FRIENDS!!!"

Again, anyone think Zatanna somehow messed it up with Light because Batman interrupted?