Identity Crisis #6

[history79]

10 pages of 30

Comments

[mrstatham]

I remember reading the commentary for the TPB and Meltzer being really hyped that they had basically made a King Lear reference with that page with Dr Light, and that they were enthused that they had made readers worry what that smirk might mean and what came next.

Yeah, thanks a fucking bunch. You just consigned a lighthearted goofy villain to being Dr McRapey Rape forever more. I'm not excited to see where Light's shenanigans take him next, I'm worried about who he's going to sexually abuse.

Also, Ollie's argument might have carried some kind of weight if he hadn't played that "YOU THINK BATMAN HASN'T DONE THE SAME THING TO US?" card, which is clearly meant to suggest the moments of Batdickery he'd suffered prior to this like Tower of Babel, but you aren't selling it WHEN YOUR SHITTY RETCON CAN BE INTERPRETED AS PRETTY MUCH BEING THE CAUSE OF ANY DICKISHNESS FROM THE CHARACTER, BRAD.

[lego_joker]

That image of Batman on the cover is clearly Bruce after he'd read the script for this issue. *Nods*

[jaybee3]

Which is exactly what Geoff Johns (in Infinite Crisis and JLA: Crisis of Conscience) did go going forward - Batman's paranoia, his Bat-dickery, the coming and going of the Bat-jerk, the creation of Brother Eye - all because of his subconscious distrust of the other heroes because of IC. Meltzer gave DC an out to make Batman act like a jerk anytime they felt like it and have an explanation if anyone complained it was out of character. The mind-wipe.

Another reason to loathe this mini-series.

[locuatico]

here is the difference with Tower of Babel. As superman himself has admitted, if he was to go bonkers for whatever reason, earth is doomed. So he gave Bruce a fragment of Kryptonite so he could use it to stop him.

Bruce did not secretly hide the kryptonite, he did not lie to Clark about it. Clark gave it to him.

Tower of Babel was done with the reasoning that, if the JL were to go evil or be mind controlled, they needed a way to stop them. which is actually a real concern they could have. this is a plot point in the DCAU. if the JL became evil, earth is screwed.
that is doing something for "the greater good", and people can complain all they want about how Batman should have tell his FRIENDS about it(which he should), point still stands: he was not entirely unjustified in his concern.

Ollie and the others violated Dr. Lights and Bruces rights as human beings and then took the moral high ground claiming that they did the right thing and that Bruce was noone to judge them. They took the role of Judge, Jury and Executioner and then pat themselves in the back afterwards.

So no, Ollie, do not come with me with that "do you think he didn't do similar stuff?" because no, he has not, he has never taken the law by his own hands. he has ALWAYS stopped himself at the last second. something you did not do...TWICE in the same night.

[alschroeder3]

HEY!!!!!!

While there are things about this mini-series I loathed, the JLA ALTERING THE MEMORIES OF OTHERS AND THEMSELVES is NOT OUT OF CHARACTER!

Exhibit A: Justice League of America #19, one of the best of the early stories. The Justice League is framed by a super-Justice League, looking just like them and minus all their individual weaknesses. The JLA is beaten individually by their doppelgangers (created by Dr. Destiny from their dreams) and then arrested by the police (no, they didn't put up a fight to the authorities--they aren't MARVEL heroes. *Grin*) and Jean Loring, ironically in light of this min-series, was their lawyer. They pled nolo contendre to the charges (not admitting their guilt but having no way to prove their innocence) but agreed to leaving the Earth in a space ship they built until they could prove their innocence under court order.

Except for one loophole. They were under court order not to return as Superman, Batman, et al--but Clark Kent, Diana Prince, Bruce Wayne COULD. They returned for a return match with the super-Justice League and eventually won--but they showed their powers in their civilian identities (and had to reveal their identities to each other, something they hadn't done up to this point) to the public.

So at the end, Superman--with the agreement of all of them---remarked it was "wonderful" to know each others' identities, but that public knowledge of their identities would endanger their loved ones--he said he'd use his "amnesium" in his Fortress to make EVERYONE ON EARTH---including THEMSELVES--forget each others' identities. (Or at least, who didn't know it before, like Batman and Superman knew each others'.)

That was UNANIMOUS on every JLAer's part. INCLUDING Batman and Green Arrow. And no, the ordinary people didn't get a vote. (I'm not sure how that was done. Amnesium, which appeared in other stories, needed to be in close proximity. Did Superman and Flash super-speed around everyone on Earth and expose them to it...?)

So when Green Arrow said about Batman "you think he hasn't done the same to us"...well, guys, it has DEFINITELY happened before.

Yes, this is a little different. But aren't they all? I'm sure if I looked through my collection, I could find other examples---Superman with his amnesium, GL with his power ring---where memories were wiped of others WITHOUT their consent.

Maybe Meltzer just has a good memory. HATE the rape. HATE the fact that the murderer had such a flimsy pretext, and was so easily guessed. But HERE--Meltzer is portraying the JLA the way they WERE.

I can post the scenes, if anyone's interested. It might take me a little while to find the pictures to scan, though.

[crinos]

See, here's the thing. If the intent was to take Dr. Light and make him a threat to the JLA again.... well they failed. Because being a sadsitic asshole doesn't make you any more competent or badass, it makes you a nasty miserable sadistic asshole.

I mean despite the myraid attempts to put the new rapey Light over by having him beat people up that were previously way above his weight class, no one ever bought it. And after all this, Dr Light showed up I believe twice more: In the JLA Secret Society story where Black Canary basically expressed no regrets for lobotomizing the little shit, and then Cheetah ended up beating him up for being a slimy rapist, and then the story where Specter literally snuffed him out like a candle. .

Yeah, that was really worth making him a rapist wasn't it? I don't think I've seen the public react more poorly to an attempt to put someone over than when Roman Reigns won the royal rumble this year.

And aside from that? I don't think Doctor Light was used for anything else. Because NO ONE WANTS TO USE A SCUMBAG RAPIST CHARACTER FOR ANYTHING BESIDES SHITTING ON HIM FOR BEING A SCUMBAG RAPIST.

And the Hell of it is, the Hell of it? This can actually be done right. You can take a goofy silver age character who was previously portrayed as a loser and make him cool and badass. This can be done. Hell, DC did this with Catman (In fact, its almost like Gail Simone looked at what they did with Doctor Light and went "Wow, these guys have no idea what the fuck they are doing do they? Alright stand back, Lemme show you what its done!")

See, there's a right way to do this, and a wrong way to do this, and the way they did it with Light is WROOOOOONG.

[jekylls_salvation]

I think the point is to make you worried about who he's going to sexually abuse. What should heroes do with him? He's a threat. He'll take advantage of a vulnerability at any cost given the opportunity. What should heroes do with people like him?

[reveen]

Dead End? I get it! Cos lots of characters are dead! Haha!

And what's the deal with Watchtower food?

Q: "What are you doing to him?"

[7dialsmystery]

A: "He tried to escape! We're subduing him!"

See, you people could have avoided this if you were better liars.

Re: Q: "What are you doing to him?"

[icon_uk]

In fairness (and that's a bloody hard thing to type as regards this series), lying to Batman rarely ends well either.

[icon_uk]

"You think he hasn't done the same thing to us?"

Actually, no I'm pretty sure he never has Ollie.

[jaybee3]

To be fair that was the one line that rang true. Not from Bruce's perspective (no, he wouldn't do that) from Ollie's. Ollie always seems to find a way to blame his guilt on someone else, to imagine someone else is as bad as he is. It's perfectly in character for him to say that.

[locuatico]

i just love the phrase the phrase he uses. so, because batman MIGHT have done something like this, they are justified to do the same? If batman had ever done something even similar to this, something for the so called "greater good", wouldn't he have done something to stop the Joker permanently?
I mean, the fact that Dr. Light raped Sue was awful (and awful writting), but The Joker has done some truly despicable things, and it is obvious at this point that the system is not going to stop Joker.
this statement is just stupid "OH, Batman, we cannot trust him, he is willing to do anything for the greater good. he has done stuff we would never forgive. if he was in the same situation he would have done the same". NO, he would not. if he has not tried to mind wipe Joker already, he is not going to fall for any of that "greater good" crap.

[drtechnobabel]

Also, when Ollie's talking about the night Bruce caught them, I got the feeling that Ollie thinks the only reason Bruce was pissed at them was because he didn't come up with the 'mindwipe and reprogram supervillains' idea first. Specifically the 'Bruce would never stand for it. Not without his say-so' line.

[bradygirl_12]

So all this is the reason we've gotten the rude, petty, condescending Bat-dick all these years, making him almost completely unlikeable? Great, another thing to chalk up to this lousy event.

[icon_uk]

Up to a point, this came AFTER a good deal of the Bat-dickish moments like his general attitude to his family in the likes of No Man's Land, or inability to communicate with any of them about anything to do with emotions , which are now sort of excused post facto.

[jekylls_salvation]

It's not necessary to explain Batman's standoffish ever-distance. He is a cracked, broken child, traumatized into a massive defense mechanism. When he's not, when he stops being that, he's not Batman anymore, Batman is gone, it dies, and he won't ever allow that. That's the tragedy. If you want a happy, friendlier Batman, maybe check out the Blue Beetle. If he's alive.

[drtechnobabel]

You know Ollie, your whole speech about doing what's necessary to protect one's identity might hold more weight if your own mask wasn't so tiny it could fit between two fingers. Oh, and if you ever shaved that super-distinctive goatee that no one except Oliver Queen wears anymore.

[icon_uk]

Perhaps he works on the notion that people will assume that it's SO obvious it's TOO obvious?

[timgueugen]

Mia Dearden saw through his disguise pretty much instantly when she met Oliver. I wonder if that's still canon?

[locuatico]

or not become mayor of your own town?

[matrix_dragon]

Ah yes. The moment Green Arrow went from 'Bit of a Jerk, but you know he means well', to 'Arrogant, hypocritical filth.'

Hooray for 'Realism'! :(

[jekylls_salvation]

A genuine question. What would the old Green Arrow have done?

[starwolf_oakley]

When I first read this, and how Bruce came back because of Sue, that meant Bruce was glad Ralph had "a life" as part of "The Life." Bruce Wayne is aware of how screwed up he is, and Batman can *really* tell how screwed up he is compared to the rest of the Justice League. If that's the reason Batman "hates" the JLA, well, that just makes Batman look petty. (I'm all about Batman not looking petty.)

Sometimes you accept "Because he's Batman." He knew right away *what* Zatanna was doing to Light and *why* because he's Batman. And he rushed to stop them because he's Batman. And you can imagine him thinking "I thought, I sometimes even considered... Harvey Dent was one of my BEST FRIENDS!!!"

Again, anyone think Zatanna somehow messed it up with Light because Batman interrupted?

[jekylls_salvation]

He is Batman.

I think Zatanna should have spoken more. If she'd have expressed a thought or opinion more, she'd have looked less like an instrument.

[matrix_dragon]

As a side note, one of the other things about this story I disliked was that it essentially claimed that Superman and Batman were 'lazy'. They'd show up for the punching and fighting, and then they'd leave the cleanup to other people, because they had 'more important' things to do. They never found out what Ollie and co were up to for so long, because they never stuck around to help.

Just... no.

[espanolbot]

Kind of ironic that Ollie, being one of the more leftwing superheroes in DC, uses the same justifications that hardline rightwing people use here.

Heck, I'd expect this talk from Hawkman (that guy is a mess of hard conservativism mixed with a whole bunch of creepness, like trying to pressure a teenage girl into marrying him due to her being his reincarnated wife).

[espanolbot]

It's still kind of bizarre that Ollie, who once called Aquaman a fascist due to his being in charge of a monarchy, is the one being used as a mouthpiece for this... stuff. Like, Frank Miller uses Batman to on an extended powertrip all the time (Dark Knight Strikes Again and All Star Batman being the most guilty of this), but even he didn't opt to use lobotomies on his colleagues due to them inconveniencing him.

Also, notice that the blame of this is implictly placed on Zatanna? Who, chronologically here, is a much younger hero than the others at this point, and who just lost her dad over in Swamp Thing? She's the one Batman sees kerfoobling with Light's brain, she's the one who freezes Batman...

For all their talk of it being a Cabal, it really seems to boil down to Hawkman telling people "the Ends Justify The Means" and Ollie going "Welp, can't argue with that". What are Zatanna's opinions on this? What are Dinah's? Why are there no narrators who are women in this thing?

Okay, let's tally this up, shall we?

- The story kicks off with a (pregnant) woman getting murdered in her own home by a friend, who then burns the body to hide the evidence.

- Said woman was revealed to have been raped, and we're not told what her feelings were on it, only conjecture from her male friends.

- Zatanna is presented as not just a plot convenience, but as an emotional impulsive one due to her dad dying recently.

- Zatanna, despite being a long time friend of Bruce, is shown to freeze him without warning, something that causes her to come to blows with the other members of the Cabal.

- The end reveal that the entire thing was a ploy to make Jean Loring's ex-husband, the husband who SHE DIVORCED, come back to her. In a scheme that has no explanation other than "She's crazy" that leaves at least three people dead.

- Jean is then committed to a mental hospital where, a) most of the DCU's supervillains are kept, and b) they know who she is due to her leaking her identity to the newspapers, as shown earlier in the story. This leads to her being tortured and raped by the inmates, as revealed in another magazine.

Why is it that, besides Dr Light and the Arkham thing with Jean, the story seems to consist of men being manipulated or forced into doing things by emotional/unstable women?

[mrstatham]

Oh, no, Dinah actually says 'she can handle herself' during the mindwipe discussion, which.. Is really, really non-committal and just seems like a slap in the face to *how* Sue was abused, almost like it's her fault she got raped because she wasn't prepared for a supervillain suddenly appearing in what was meant to be a safe place and then blinding her.

But yeah. I love Zatanna. I really do. Words cannot describe how much I hate this story and what it largely did to her and her alone for a good few years, and this story's treatment of it's female characters is freaking appalling. Again, I think it says a lot that I actually *bought* Meltzer's intent with the opening scene. I had *never* read anything with Ralph or Sue prior to this, and those opening pages made me love them, Sue especially. But after a while, it's like.. How could you render that relationship so lovingly, and then piss on it so hard? I mean, I understand inserting drama into a relationship as a necessity, but I really don't get Meltzer or DC's mentality here.