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scans_dailyThe audience's attitudes towards certain subjects change as time progresses, so what might seem harmless or even amusing to a past audience comes across as offensive or even creepy by one of today! So, I thought that I'd gather up a few for your perusal.*
*Note: This isn't meant to make light of what they're doing or who they're doing it to, but rather pointing out how unpleasant and strange it is that SUPERHEROES are the ones doing it.
As previously stated in the last section about Ollie, he was drugged and raped by the assassin Shado, through which he fathered his son Robert, of whose existance Oliver didn't know for some years afterwards.
However, despite even Ollie's rapist admitting that it wasn't consentual on Queen's part (she tells Dinah that he thought that Shado was Black Canary), future writers at DC seemed to get a touch stuck on the idea that Oliver "cheats" on Black Canary. Like, a lot.
For example, shortly after Oliver is brought back to life in Quiver, he almost immediately has sex with Black Lightning's niece after fixing his relationship with Black Canary (a relationship rekindled at the cost of her then steady relationship with Dr Midnite, by the by). He assumes that she knew he was in a relationship, so he shifts the blame onto her for tempting him with her lawyery ways. Yeah, turns out that she didn't.
She's then killed off later in the same storyline in order to provide angst for Ollie (partly her uncle too, but mainly Ollie, urgh). Ollie does apologise to Jefferon Pierce (BL) for causing her death, but it's implied that Pierce KNEW that Ollie would try to sleep with her, bitterly saying that he should have expected it to happen as soon as he introduced him to her.
Thing is, besides Shado (which AGAIN was against his will), Ollie only semi-cheated on Dinah once to my knowledge pre-resurrection. And that's with a woman he kissed back in the "Sherwood Florist" days (I think).
Yet despite that, something of a pattern began to emerge, one that Barbara Gordon was quick to point out to Dinah when she and Ollie were set to get married.
She then backs this up with a description of Ollie's first meeting with a then-teenage Babs, who says something about her costume that's either headscratchingly esoteric, or he's telling her that somehow the Batgirl outfit suggests she's be open to random dudes macking on her.
Thing is, victimblaming aside, Babs doesn't even scratch the surface there with Ollie's womanising, as presented in the comics. For example, while on the team JLElite, he slept with Dawn, the wife of fellow team mate Mantiou Raven (she did it because she was lonely and her husband was actively ignoring her, deciding to focus on his magic than adapting to life in the 21st century... Ollie did it because he thought that she was hot. Both are mega guilty when Raven dies soon after, but Ollie gets over it hella faster than Dawn does). He also tries it on with Vera Black, who gives the best response ever.
And then there's his infered taste in much younger women, where in addition to the aforementioned Babs incident, it was also canonical for a long time that Ollie and Dinah also got together when he was in his mid to late twenties when she was in her late teens (such as in JLA: Year One when she was around 19). Fair enough, I guess, some people can make it work despite the age difference, but then there was the slowly dripping implication that he routinely picks up women in the 16-17 age bracket... which has a whole mess of issues going on.
This was first pointed out in Quiver, where Dinah intially thinks that the then 16/17 year old Mia Dearsden is in a sexual relationship with the newly resurrected Ollie.
While later in the Brave and the Bold, Hal Jordan has to remind himself that he's "Not Ollie" to stop him thinking of the 17 year old Supergirl in a sexual manner (he evidently learned his lesson after the Arisia Incident).
This coupled with his frankly kind of terrible relationship with his bio-kids (he was present for Connor Hawke's birth, then promptly walked out on him and his mum immediately afterwards, pretending to meet him for the first time when Connor's an adult, while there's the implication that Arrowette is his child via a one-night stand with a fan... yeah), and the fact that (despite growing up in the 80s and 90s) he evidently DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HIV OR AIDS WERE until the storyline where Mia contracts the disease... Yeah.
It's not really a question of being sex-positive or not, it's more a case that Ollie's pretty irresponsible with who he sleeps with, and isn't that fussed about the consequences most of the time. Plus the imbalance within a relationship between a teenage girl and a dude who (in the height of his pre-death superhero career) was in his 30s is kinda huge... It all comes together to make a picture of a dude I wouldn't trust within 100 yards of Titans Tower is all I'm saying.
On a side note, during Blackest Night, a Black Lantern version of Ollie told Dinah that the rape was never one and that he consentually slept with Shado. Whether that was an enormous retcon or BL!Ollie trying to get a rise out of Dinah is up for debate, however.
FUN!
*Note: This isn't meant to make light of what they're doing or who they're doing it to, but rather pointing out how unpleasant and strange it is that SUPERHEROES are the ones doing it.
As previously stated in the last section about Ollie, he was drugged and raped by the assassin Shado, through which he fathered his son Robert, of whose existance Oliver didn't know for some years afterwards.
However, despite even Ollie's rapist admitting that it wasn't consentual on Queen's part (she tells Dinah that he thought that Shado was Black Canary), future writers at DC seemed to get a touch stuck on the idea that Oliver "cheats" on Black Canary. Like, a lot.
For example, shortly after Oliver is brought back to life in Quiver, he almost immediately has sex with Black Lightning's niece after fixing his relationship with Black Canary (a relationship rekindled at the cost of her then steady relationship with Dr Midnite, by the by). He assumes that she knew he was in a relationship, so he shifts the blame onto her for tempting him with her lawyery ways. Yeah, turns out that she didn't.
She's then killed off later in the same storyline in order to provide angst for Ollie (partly her uncle too, but mainly Ollie, urgh). Ollie does apologise to Jefferon Pierce (BL) for causing her death, but it's implied that Pierce KNEW that Ollie would try to sleep with her, bitterly saying that he should have expected it to happen as soon as he introduced him to her.
Thing is, besides Shado (which AGAIN was against his will), Ollie only semi-cheated on Dinah once to my knowledge pre-resurrection. And that's with a woman he kissed back in the "Sherwood Florist" days (I think).
Yet despite that, something of a pattern began to emerge, one that Barbara Gordon was quick to point out to Dinah when she and Ollie were set to get married.
She then backs this up with a description of Ollie's first meeting with a then-teenage Babs, who says something about her costume that's either headscratchingly esoteric, or he's telling her that somehow the Batgirl outfit suggests she's be open to random dudes macking on her.
Thing is, victimblaming aside, Babs doesn't even scratch the surface there with Ollie's womanising, as presented in the comics. For example, while on the team JLElite, he slept with Dawn, the wife of fellow team mate Mantiou Raven (she did it because she was lonely and her husband was actively ignoring her, deciding to focus on his magic than adapting to life in the 21st century... Ollie did it because he thought that she was hot. Both are mega guilty when Raven dies soon after, but Ollie gets over it hella faster than Dawn does). He also tries it on with Vera Black, who gives the best response ever.
And then there's his infered taste in much younger women, where in addition to the aforementioned Babs incident, it was also canonical for a long time that Ollie and Dinah also got together when he was in his mid to late twenties when she was in her late teens (such as in JLA: Year One when she was around 19). Fair enough, I guess, some people can make it work despite the age difference, but then there was the slowly dripping implication that he routinely picks up women in the 16-17 age bracket... which has a whole mess of issues going on.
This was first pointed out in Quiver, where Dinah intially thinks that the then 16/17 year old Mia Dearsden is in a sexual relationship with the newly resurrected Ollie.
While later in the Brave and the Bold, Hal Jordan has to remind himself that he's "Not Ollie" to stop him thinking of the 17 year old Supergirl in a sexual manner (he evidently learned his lesson after the Arisia Incident).
This coupled with his frankly kind of terrible relationship with his bio-kids (he was present for Connor Hawke's birth, then promptly walked out on him and his mum immediately afterwards, pretending to meet him for the first time when Connor's an adult, while there's the implication that Arrowette is his child via a one-night stand with a fan... yeah), and the fact that (despite growing up in the 80s and 90s) he evidently DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HIV OR AIDS WERE until the storyline where Mia contracts the disease... Yeah.
It's not really a question of being sex-positive or not, it's more a case that Ollie's pretty irresponsible with who he sleeps with, and isn't that fussed about the consequences most of the time. Plus the imbalance within a relationship between a teenage girl and a dude who (in the height of his pre-death superhero career) was in his 30s is kinda huge... It all comes together to make a picture of a dude I wouldn't trust within 100 yards of Titans Tower is all I'm saying.
On a side note, during Blackest Night, a Black Lantern version of Ollie told Dinah that the rape was never one and that he consentually slept with Shado. Whether that was an enormous retcon or BL!Ollie trying to get a rise out of Dinah is up for debate, however.
FUN!
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Date: 2015-04-21 10:29 pm (UTC)I'll chalk it up to that, the Black Lanterns really were gigantic liars.
Every *other* example here.... ? Yeeeeea.
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Date: 2015-04-21 11:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-04-21 11:44 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2015-04-22 03:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-04-22 01:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-04-22 03:39 am (UTC)I trust Barbara's information (and that Dinah and Hal know him). I think Ollie's imperfect, and he never claimed otherwise. I don't think to be a superhero you have to check a long list of boxes for the morality police.
"Does not cheat,"
"Does not lie out of fear of saving his relationship" (I read Blackest Night, but why would a lie elicit visual memories?)
"Does not see teens sexually," (clearly pornhub did not exist back then) (oh and what is the legal age of consent on krypton? Because 17 is the legal age of consent on a number of states).
Not that I'm defending him. I think he's kind of a creep, but he wouldn't actually ever cross any lines because he's a good guy at heart.
Hey on those Quiver panels, second page, there are 3 panels where Dinah and Conner are being thoughtfully silent and they're not all copies of the same panel. That would never happen today.
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Date: 2015-04-22 11:09 am (UTC)I call it Hank Pym Syndrome.
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Date: 2015-04-23 03:42 am (UTC)