The Punisher fights crime

[cyberghostface]

 

From Spectacular Spider-Man #81.

Comments

[leoboiko]

[Turns toward reader] “You are reading copyrighted content on a website… BRUDDABRUDDABRIPPP”

[icon_uk]

Yup, we're well and truly borked then aren't we!

[dragontail]

This was my first-ever exposure to The Punisher. It's remained my mental image of him, regardless of any other texts, ever since. I know Frank Miller (or someone) ret-conned it into being the effects of drugs, but yeah... Punisher is, in my mind, a nut who'd shoot at litterers.

[reveen]

Honestly, I'd rather read about Punisher shooting at littering assholes than shooting black folks who ended up in a gang because their community offers jackshit else.

[cyberghostface]

Does the Punisher have a propensity for that?

[locuatico]

it depends on the writer. IIRC Garth Gennis' punisher (yes, really) is usually decent.

[cyberghostface]

Tbh I'm not sure why someone like the Punisher would even care about someone's childhood if they were already a killer or violent criminal. There was a story by Ennis where he rescued some kids from being filmed in child porn by their parents and he looks at the boy's eyes at the end and thinks "I'll probably be seeing him again in a few years".

[locuatico]

oh yeah. his moral absolutism doesn't care for someone's childhood or excuses. there is a reason why a number of writers imply that frank's last victim will be himself.

[silverhammerman]

I've heard that sort of thing about the current series, but I could be wrong.

There have been more than a few throwaway sequences of the Punisher mowing down generic street criminals, but I think that most (good) writers do actually avoid having low level criminals act as the character's main villains. It'd be virtually impossible to have that interaction not be incredibly off-putting.

This actually brings to mind a discussion I saw recently of how the politics of various creative teams are reflected in who and what they have the Punisher fight against.

[espanolbot]

I think that Ultimate Punisher killed some kids just for being in a gang once.

[punisher007]

Written by someone who doesn't know jack-diddly about The Punisher or how he operates.

[silverhammerman]

I think this is completely true to the Punisher as he'd been envisioned at the time, as a deranged Spider-Man villain. It was only in later years that he would be turned into an anti-heroic badass.

[icon_uk]

To be honest, I've never been entirely sure how an unrepentant multiple murderer gets to be an "anti hero" as opposed to "villain"

[cyberghostface]

He's the protagonist and he kills 'bad guys' so that's all it takes.

[silverhammerman]

I suppose the Punisher was just coincidentally well suited to be picked up by the same Reagan era culture that gave us Delta Force and the Rambo sequels. Gross cultures breed gross heroes.

[cyberghostface]

I think I'd have less of a problem with him if he existed in his own universe like Punishermax or focused on stuff like sexual slavery rackets. He really clashes with the rest of the Marvel universe.

It's funny how often he's depicted as being a huge godmode sue in that (in his own title at least) he's able to outwit and outmaneuver the rest of the Marvel universe but because of the status quo he's never going to topple someone big like the Kingpin and instead has to settle for d-list villains like Stilt-Man.

[silverhammerman]

I think some of the more recent runs with the character have tried to address that conflict, either by pushing him in a more "Marvel Universe" direction or actually showing that conflict. It's a bit of a sticking point though, so maybe it's just kind of better if they don't acknowledge it.

Then again, does the basic premise of the Punisher really clash with the rest of the Marvel universe more than, say, the X-Men do? It's at least conceivable that the Avengers might have bigger fish to fry than stopping some guy who shoots mobsters, but having them ignore government sponsored genocidal robots is a bridge too far at times.

[cyberghostface]

Well with the X-Men at least the idea of the Avengers ignoring the mutants was a plot point in AvX. Although I don't know how often sentinels are used on a long-term basis.

But with Frank it's more like we have a guy who might as well be Batman in terms of how efficient he is (at one point he broke in and stole one of Tony's suits) and he goes out of his way to kill but because of the status quo there's not a whole lot of people he can do much about outside of generic mobster groups or d-list villains.

[punisher007]

It helps that Frank doesn't claim to be a hero per-se. He sees himself more as a soldier fighting a war. If anything, most "heroes" seem to annoy him due to their "self-righteousness."

[coldfury]

And this is the thing that bugs me about Arrow on CW. "He hasn't murdered anyone lately" isn't a great defense.

[locuatico]

this is early punisher. before he had been fleshed out.

[ablackraptor]

Isn't this during his first appearance? I think at this point, this WAS how he operated.

[philippos42]

No, this appears to be one of Bill Mantlo's fill-in issues written for editors who were going to miss a deadline.

[philippos42]

Or, wait, this is Al Milgrom's PPTSSM? Well, I don't know, then. That was the "lesser" Spider-Man book at the time, and I got into it later, after Al left.

[starwolf_oakley]

This was referenced in FRED HEMBECK KILLS THE MARVEL UNIVERSE in the bookends where the Punisher confronts Fred Hembeck over killing the Marvel Universe.

"Why am I only on one panel?"
"Well, this was done back when you were shooting at jaywalkers."
Also, it turned out the Punisher was really Stan Lee in disguise, because why not?

[lieut_kettch]

So this isn't from a What The..? issue? They were seriously portraying him that way back then?

[deh_tommy]

I knew he was a Villain in early appearances, but this is just silly.

May I ask, what caused the Punisher to become the man he is today, compared to the person in these scans? Also, why is that policeman riding a horse?

[cyberghostface]

There are police units that ride horses.

[arilou_skiff]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mounted_police

[ablackraptor]

IIRC, they retconned that he'd been dosed by some drugs and was kind of crazy from it.

[tigerkaya]

Seems perfectly in character.

[punisher007]

Frank doesn't kill ALL criminals. Hell during Fraction's run, he forms a semi-cordial dynamic with the freaking Rhino (back when he was trying to go legit). He kills the "worst of the worst."

[tigerkaya]

It was a joke.