New 52 Wonder Woman - Why doesn't she have Cool villains?

[lordultimus]

So I posted some tidbits about the upcoming Earth One: Wonder Woman book, and some discussion came about based on how the character has changed. I thought I'd post a bit that shows why the Earth One book is important in showing a different side of Wondy (though from what I've heard, Geoff Johns has improved in writing her recently.)







On a related note, the Finches are actually interested in modernizing her rogues gallery, starting with Silver Swan at least.

Comments

[trooper924]

You know, I find it tiresome whenever a "killing vs. not killing" discussion in a comic books these days. It's partly because of how it's just so overdone, but it's more how black and white it's portrayed. Either killing can never ever be done or it has to be the only solution to absolutely every situation. Plus, I think there's a sort of inherent smugness in the whole debate. Basically, most instances can be boiled down to: "You kill people and I don't, therefore you suck and I rule, you murderous dick!" or "You don't kill people and I do, therefore you suck and I rule, ya big baby!"

Just, gah. Maybe at one point, it was an interesting question to ask, whether superheroes should kill or not. But barely anyone these handle that question with any subtlety or nuance.

[sagrada]

A great way is to frame it as part of the eternal question of nature vs. nurture. Would changing the circumstances that person lives in change the person? Would making Cheetah not cursed to be a were-cheetah make her no longer a danger to others? What if Superman surgically removed Dr. Psycho's psychic powers? Would he still be a scumbag rapist?

Or is the problem in individual personal natures, and people just need to learn to recognize them and remove them from existence, weeding out unwanted behavior? Are people just born good or bad?

As given, Wondy seems pretty convinced that it's the person in singular that's the problem, that no matter what changes around them they'll still be "them", and evil for it. That person doesn't want to change, so they won't no matter what's used to cajole them, they'll always be villains and dangers to the society around them.

Part of the problem is that by now Wonder Woman's 'mission' is as vague and meaningless as any of the other Big Timers. She's out to make the world better by...killing people who don't fit in? By instilling fear? By encouraging people to pursue violence to solve their problems? She's the God of War, but is supposedly teaching the people of Earth utopian ideals. Is the heart of Utopia ruthless pragmatism, like in the Republic?

[trooper924]

Yeah, but like I said, most stories don't approach the subject with that level of nuance. It either "Grr, killing bad!" or "Grr, killing good!" with nothing in between.

[tigerkaya]

Yes, yes and a thousand times yes. Its a cycle in super hero comics that is sadly handled poorly sure their have been good examples of the arguments in better stories but at the same time the premise of these debates have worn out their welcome.

[nyadnar17]

Its especially weird considering how much of a non-issue it is across the street at Marvel. 9/10 heroes there hating killing, but will kill out of self defense. There is no debate. Most everyone there agrees killing, especially by masked vigilantes not answerable to anyone, is a bad thing most of the time AND most everyone agrees that if you do kill someone that does not somehow "make you as bad as them".

WW in particular is a strange case because DC editorial won't come out and mandate what her stance on the issue is or it changes from book to book.

[ablackraptor]

I think Marvel were once very much black-and-white on the issue (take into account the time the Avengers nearly split because of the issue, or how Hawkeye and Mockingbird's marriage was destroyed because he couldn't sympathise with her killing Phantom Rider), but it seems they've taken a general, modernized view on it in recent years; I'm not sure when that started exactly.

[lordultimus]

Most of Marvel anyways. Spider-Man is still pretty keen on the "No Killing, Ever" rule.