Your new favourite Captain America

[stubbleupdate]

really is All New, All Different

From Spider-Gwen #2

Comments

[nyadnar17]

.....it boggles the mind how different that America must be. That is during their WW2 right?

Spider-Gwen's world is shaping up to be very interesting.

[7dialsmystery]

Spoilers

http://io9.com/behold-the-awesome-origins-of-spider-gwens-new-female-c-1742105256

[tigerkaya]

okay, meh.

[thehood]

Not me at all, she's fantastic.

[tigerkaya]

Good for you.

[doctor_spanky]

This definitely sends a less confusing message than the original Cap being the Aryan ideal

Is she an original character? Or like an alternate Misty Knight or someone pre-existing?

[palgrave_goldenrod]

To be fair, the original Cap was supposed to be a huge "fuck you" to the Aryan ideal. Yeah, he was basically a physical representation of one of Hitler's wet dreams, but that was the whole point -- the actual perfect ideal human being took one look at that toxic ideology and rejected it outright.

[baihu]

I just kept seeing the whole "take steroids/drugs to help your country because you're not good enough" thing being the issue. Arguably wartime is probably the best time to just accept gene/drug-modification being acceptable for the greater good...but you do get into this aesop of 'changing yourself drastically and possibly fatally because there's no point in serving your country to your normal capacity'.

Not saying being a patriot or nationalist to that extent is wrong, but having a main character be that aesop to young readers in a mainstream comic, seems a bit much.

Though MCU did have Cap refer to himself accepting to experimentation for those reasons, and thus the twins couldn't be vilified for doing the same, in Age of Ultron.

[palgrave_goldenrod]

Well, it was also the forties when he was created, to again be fair. Yeah, the whole "weak guy has to take drugs to actually be able to be a hero" thing is a bit hinky these days, but considering that he was created pretty much just before America entered the war and guys like Steve really were being classed as 4F and turned away from the processing stations, it probably seemed a lot less problematic at the time. It's the same reasoning behind why Clark Kent put on a pair of glasses and acted like a dweeb; the classic "weak guy actually can be a tough hero!" fantasy. Lots of people who wanted to join the fight but weren't allowed to -- including, it has to be noted, the kids reading comic books -- probably wouldn't have minded having a special injection that would let them become Captain America either.

[icon_uk]

In 1940 I don't think Joe Simon and Jack Kirby really cared about the method of transformation cap required beyond "Science can work wonders in the right hands".

AFAIK artifical steroids were still in their infancy and what they could do was still being discovered in the late 30's and if you used the term "gene-modification" you'd get funny looks.

The notion that steroids were dangerous and addictive wasn't really known either.

[stubbleupdate]

This explains it better

[penguinzero]

She's a new character -- more or less. Her name is Samantha T. Wilson (so obvious reference there), and she was one of four candidates in the Super-Soldier program in the Spider-Gwen universe. (The other three being, as you might expect, Steve Rogers, James Barnes, and Isaiah Bradley.) Nazis attacked the project, and she was the only one left standing, and managed to get to the Vita-Ray Chamber, activate it, and fight back.

In the modern era, she's got a male clone descendent, Sam 13, who she's mentoring as her sidekick, the Falcon. There's a whole bio page about her at the back of the issue, which makes for pretty interesting reading. (Not all of it is entirely serious.)

[palgrave_goldenrod]

I'll bet the development of the Civil Rights Movement was very interesting in this particular universe...

If I may be so rude and ignorant

[deh_tommy]

Why is this still called Spider-Gwen if there's far more to this title than just Gwen Stacy being Spider-Woman? Sam Wilson is female and also the original Captain America from the Second World War, her clone is training another Falcon, Peter Parker was the Lizard, Matt Murdock is a criminal working for the Kingpin, Frank Castle never had his family die and is still a Police officer and I'm not sure what else I'm missing.

Re: If I may be so rude and ignorant

[michaelhealy]

Gwen is still the view point character from this universe. Everything else we see is somehow tied to her story.

Re: If I may be so rude and ignorant

[mrstatham]

This. It's her book.

Re: If I may be so rude and ignorant

[stubbleupdate]

I genuinely don't understand why this is difficult for you.

Lots and lots of titles have supporting characters around a main star.

I mean, Frasier wasn't just about one man and his radio show; it included his father's relationship with his sons, his brother's unhappy marriage and unrequited love for another woman, his producer's love life and so on.

In comics alone the supporting cast of Superman, Batman, Captain America, Invincible, Spider-Man all take narrative limelight away from the eponymous stars.

I could go on and on with literature (Oliver Twist), film, theatre (The Phantom of the Opera is off stage a lot in The Phantom of the Opera), but I trust you get the idea

Re: If I may be so rude and ignorant

[clarahow]

I'm wondering if your problem isn't that it doesn't all seem to revolve around her, because there have almost always been side stories in comics and in most other literature, as long as there have been supporting characters and interwoven plots, but that the name is Spider Gwen and the series is focusing on, and changing things generally in favor of, female characters...rather than the standard male characters.

There's far more to any comic than just the singular, titular hero, and there are hundreds of comics and dozens of films that include those names...

[lieut_kettch]

Disappointed that she's not a Bradley. Either a genderbent Isaiah or Eli would do.

[thehood]

Isiah was mentioned and does exist I'm this universe.