Tales of Suspense #66-68

[superboyprime]

'If I were writing "The Return of Barry Allen" today, I'd have been murdered before the second issue came out.' - Mark Waid

Comments

[redmagpie]

What happened at the end of the first issue of the return of barry allen?

[tcampbell1000]

Barry Allen returned.

It was only later that he was revealed to be Eobard Thawne instead. This was, mind you, during a time when most fans were more invested in Wally and actually didn't WANT Barry to come back.

[redmagpie]

Wait so it wasn't the story where Barry ACTUALLY returned? Sorry!

[obsidianwolf]

Also keep in mind that it was clear from the get go that all would be resolved in a few issues and Waid and Editorial weren't making asses of themselves in public giving interviews about how this was how things were going to be for Barry from now on.

[matrix_dragon]

I think that's the big thing, really. If they just released this weeks issue of Cap, people would be going 'wait WHAT!?' And while some people on the internet would be, well, people on the internet about the whole thing, others would be interested, or judge the issue on it's own merits.

Instead, Marvel had press releases about the twist before the issue even came out, in interviews they keep going 'not a dream, not an imaginary story!' so on and so on. And they always do this now. While yes, the internet fandom can be jerks about things at times, I think a lot of the blame can be aimed elsewhere.

[laughing_tree]

"Instead, Marvel had press releases about the twist before the issue even came out."

No, they didn't. They did just the opposite, going out of the way to make sure the issue didn't get spoiled ahead of time.

And it being obvious that The Return of Barry Return would be resolved in a few issues is something that's only true in retrospect. For people reading at the time, it wasn't obvious. In fact I can guarantee that if Waid was ever asked about it in a Wizard interview at the time or whatever, he didn't say it was temporary or fake-out because that would've been spoiling his own story.

[matrix_dragon]

Wait, they didn't this time?

... oh. Okay, my bad there. Sorry, I was thinking of stuff like Rebirth, and Marvels recent bad habit of doing leaks to the media got mixed up in my brain. I be the dumb one here.

[captainbellman]

No, I'm pretty sure Marvel put out a press release that - something-big and shocking was coming out, but they just didn't spoil what it was. Likely they did it as a response to the Rebirth leaked pages.

[laughing_tree]

A gossip site reported that, but I'm not aware of any official press release. I could have missed something, though.

[cyberghostface]

There's something hilarious in seeing Hitler refer to himself as an evil genius with hatred of mankind here.

[starwolf_oakley]

Well, the Sleeper robots were based on the idea that Hitler decided if he couldn't conquer the world, he would destroy it instead. Sounds about right to me.

[commodus]

The really sad thing is that given the depths of depravity the Nazis stooped to, forcing some doofus bellboy to wear a goofy mask is actually pretty tame :/

Though, I will say that this comic really nailed Hitler's soap opera hissy fits.

[alicemacher]

Notice how in the first part Hitler and other Nazis speak fluent German (as implied with the standard English), whereas in the second part they all (with the exception of Red Skull) speak stereotypical German-accented English with selected German words tossed in. This results in a serious tone (by Silver Age standards) abruptly giving way to something out of a wartime propaganda cartoon short or Hogan's Heroes.

Edit: Also, I'm amazed at the Red Skull's instructor taking several shots to the torso with only his jacket buttons lost instead of, y'know, his life. Maybe Hitler should've forgotten the bellhop and made a "perfect Nazi" out of that guy.

[cricharddavies]

Consider that you don't actually SEE that happening. The Comics Code not only limited what you could show, but what you could imply.

[stupidbloodytuesdayman]

Amused to note that the Skull changed his uniform between issues from the speed suit with the jaunty white swastika to the more all-work-no-play number with a black swastika.

[starwolf_oakley]

I remember that "Return of Barry Allen" story. And thinking "This would be cool if I had any idea who Professor Zoom The Reverse Flash was!" The next issue promo said "Hey, isn't Professor Zoom also supposed to be dead?"

[lyricalswagger]

It's fascinating to me when I look at Kirby/Lee collaborations to see how different the story Jack was telling from the story Stan was telling.

Like, it's pretty clear that the Red Skull wasn't meant to just shoot off buttons.

[zylly]

I've been seeing that more and more often when I start to really look at Jack's art, vs. where Stan's narration was forcing it to go.

[lyricalswagger]

Jack's story always seems more interesting to me than Stan's.

[zylly]

http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/138206200872/jamesjmcghie-kirbywithoutwords-x-men-3

http://itswalky.tumblr.com/post/138206356432/kirbywithoutwords-fantastic-four-annual-2

It may just be Willis's interpretation here, but it certainly reads like Kirby's giving Jean and Sue more agency than Stan.

On the other hand, Stan was also pulling back a lot of Ditko's wacky Randian-ness (to the best of my knowledge), so there's that too.

[crinos]

I love this part of the Red Skull's origin: That he was just a bell hop until he gave Hitler the stink eye and Hitler was like "Wow, that is one mean looking guy, I think I could make something out of him, its not like any of the guys working for me now know their ass from a hole in the ground."

Its right up there with Cobra Commander originally being a used car salesman.

[leoboiko]

There's something Breaking Bad-y in those origin stories.

[thatnickguy]

HAIL HYDRA

Uh, I mean. Hi.

What?

[laughing_tree]

What? Captain America was created by two Jews specifically to be a symbol against Nazism. It doesn't matter if it's mind control or a fake-out, it's inherently disrespectful and offensive to his creators to depict him working for Nazis and sieg-heiling. What is Jack Kirby thinking, disrespecting Jack Kirby like that?

[ozaline]

Cause a one in done story where mind control is revealed from the start, is the same as pretending he was always Hydra of his own volition.

[lyricalswagger]

We don't even know that's the case, though.

[ozaline]

Marvel, and Spencer are claiming it is in interviews, and that's enough to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I mean I'm open to it being a good story but just on the face of it it doesn't entice to me to pick up a Captain America comic it just makes me not want to read any title he's appearing in until this story arc is resolved (which is a shame cause I really enjoy a good Captain America comic)