Secret Empire #2

[laughing_tree]

I am so fired up for this, people. Writing a Marvel event has been a dream of mine since the day I read the original SECRET WARS. -- Nick Spencer



























"Hope."

Meanwhile, elsewhere:

Comments

[mastermahan]

Yeah, giving someone else the authority to attack a city, knowing they're going to use it, and allowing them to do so is still responsibility.

[mesmiranda]

Still not a fan of the event or any of this, but the art here is gorgeous.

[byc]

What did Marvel say about "this is not a clone, time travel, or mind control?"

They're probably technically correct, in the ways that CoIE was technically a reboot.

[shadowpsykie]

well, from what I think.... Kobik... extracted the part of him that carried empathy. in essence... his heart. the "cap' we see, who has gone hydra, is the cap that commits himself whole heartedly to a cause.... the cap here, at the end of the comic, is that cap that knows when a cause has become compromised, and knows that sometimes, you have to fight for the ideal, not the institution.


or you know.... hydra cap is ultimate cap and this is our cap... (this seems more likely, but more lazy)....

[byc]

Thanks Obama.

[nyadnar17]

I don't know about that. Even in the flashbacks to his Hydra indoctrination Hydra!Cap had a super hard time with murder. Zemo killed the target in his final initiation test and covered for him.

[nyadnar17]

So are we just ignoring the fact that Bendis chose Hawkeye to be the one to murder the Hulk in cold blood? Because if we are I am cool with that, its just kinda weird seeing Hawkeye being the last man in Marvel who still believes in the "real heroes don't kill" thing after he murdered and unarmed, unpowered, civilian last year.

[shadowpsykie]

I KNOW RIGHT?

Clint: We don't Kill. Ever. Never. ever ever ever....."
Me: LIAR!

[mastermahan]

Maybe every superhero has a less ethical version of themselves running around?

[scorntx]

... that would explain a lot of Wolverine's decisions over the year.

"Logan, for God's sake! Why do you keep trying to murder people for little to no reason?"
"... the hell you talkin' about, bub? I've been sitting here watching hockey all week!"
*Emma Frost scans his mind*
"He's not lying. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get roaringly drunk to get those memories out of my mind..."
"... then who the hell was trying to carve out my spleen last week?"
"Probably a duplicate or something. Met one of 'em a few years back, took him on as a scab. Might've been him."
"... why would you do that?"
"Hockey's not going to watch itself, bub."

[starwolf_oakley]

It might be more "Steve Rogers is one of my best friends and he's Steve Rogers." Hopefully that than any hypocricy.

[tcampbell1000]

Explained in the full issue. Clint's guilt over pulling the string on Bruce was why it was extra important to him not to go down that road again.

[cyberghostface]

He didn't kill him in cold blood, Bruce gave him a special arrow and specifically told him to use it on him if he was about to turn into the Hulk and they were just given a premonition that he was going to Hulk out and kill everyone.

[thehood]

Which Hulk has never done and Banner was Hulkless at the time, so Clint murdered a defenseless man.

Clint jumped the gun. Plus the whole thing doesn't make a lick of sense, considering Clint and Bruce don't even like each other.

[cyberghostface]

Wasn't the main reason he was sent into space because he went on a rampage in Las Vegas and killed several people?

[thehood]

We're talking about the same series/run that established Hulk never killed anyone.

And Ultimately it was portrayed as the Illuminati being jerks.

[cyberghostface]

So no one died in Las Vegas?

[scorntx]

Preeetty sure the original Las Vegas story said no-one died at all.
Just later writers who came along and added the details about people dying.

[bruinsfan]

I distinctly remember the hulk's death toll being listed in the hundreds back in the Byrne run on his title when he and Banner were separated and he was rampaging through the Southwest. It could be argued that Banner's responsibility was lessened since he wasn't actually a part of the Hulk at that time, but it sure as hell supports the idea that launching him off planet was a reasonable way to avert future rampages.

[wizardru]

The Hulk has gone on rampages doing millions of dollars of property damage repeatedly. In multiple cases, it's pure luck that no one was killed, which is often discussed directly in the text. Yes, it's a case of 'we can't write the Hulk as a murderer of civilians, because we'll ruin the character that way', but it's also clear that in some cases only the direct intervention of other heroes prevents the carnage from having a body count (such as the Hulk's mindless rampage during Hulk #300, for example, which opens with Daredevil saving a child from being trampled during the panic of a Hulk rampage).

In a number of cases, it's been pure dumb luck that the Hulk hasn't managed to kill many people by accident or as a result of his actions. That says nothing of the Grey Hulk, who may or may not have killed people when working for the mob (we assume not, but it's not explicit). While shooting him off into space was a jerk move, it wasn't completely without reason. Honestly, the only real problem to me with the event in CWII was that we were given no preamble to Hawkeye having that arrow or that duty, which should have been foreshadowed or set up earlier (like Batman having a Kryptonite bullet, say).

[burkeonthesly]

If Bendis is going to ignore Bendis stories left and right, why shouldn't we?

[thehood]

Bruce's death is still mentioned, so unless it's revealed that the one that killed Banner was a Skrull, it doesn't seem like they are ignoring it.

Which unfortunately makes Clint look like a hypocrite.

[deh_tommy]

I think that killing Bruce Banner is actually what pushed him to this "No Killing, Ever" mantra, as he feels guilty from doing so.

[zachbeacon]

I'm fine with ignoring Bendis' Hawkeye. Hawkeye was pretty firmly in the "no killing" camp until that story where he tries to kill Osborn.

[gnarll]

I always wondered what he thought he was going to do to a guy who on many occasions went even with spider-man. I had a sneaking suspicion that they forgot that their main antagonist had superpowers.

[zachbeacon]

Yeah, I had a similar problem when Stott wrote New Ways to Die and tried to sell Bullseye as a credible threat to Spider-Man.

[remial]

" I'm trying to talk Chip Zdarsky into pitching FANTASTIC FOURTH REICH to Marvel, because I recently learned they like the Nazi comics now" -- Warren Ellis, Orbital Operations, May 28, 2017

[icon_uk]

Oooooh! BUUUUUUURNNN!

[tigerkaya]

I always figured Ellis list his mind or lack thereof.

Tune in next time!

[erikred]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCEjeTb1rrs

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

If Spencer is going to repeat Siege on Avengers Mansion, I wonder if he's gonna address how the Avengers got around it the first time. By, ya know, digging a tunnel.

[sarahnewlin]

So its Hercules, Quicksilver, and who is the lady?