I recall Byrne mentioned that one of his early ideas was to have Lara pregnant and send her to earth, where she dies giving birth to Kal-El/Clark and have him be born on Earth. I think having the Kents works perfectly fine, but I wonder how that scene would have played out. Fun fact, I think "Law & The Multiverse" or some blog like that actually studied this origin and concluded that, in the eyes of the law, Clark was officially "born" the second he left that pod, meaning he IS legally an earthling from birth.
Anyway, say whatever you want about Byrne, having the Kents be a part of clark's adult life was a stroke of genius that gave us some of the best moments of the character post-crisis. Just looking at them, you really can see how Clark grew to be the person that he is.
I read somewhere the Birthing Pod did a scan of the Kents' features and altered Kal-El's face slightly to resemble them. I've heard crazier examples of Kryptonian technology.
Isn't that how we got Daxaiums? A bunch of Kryptoianss try to leave the planet, but they got zap by a proto-Birth Matrix, changing their DNA so lead would kill them instantly?
IIRC, that was key to Icon's origin. The craft that brought him to Earth scanned the people who found his ship, who I think were black slaves, and altered his appearance to match the locals. It was also why Icon was a staunch Reagan Republican...because he was alive when Lincoln freed the slaves and he'd never forgotten.
Yeah, my key beef with New 52 was going back to "dying when Clark was younger." Having them around, still giving him support and advice, was wonderful as always loved how Clark will go to them when he faces problems and how they help him out. A marvelous touch that worked great.
I had a lot of issues with Byrne's reboot, among them how it thoroughly messed up the continuity of the Legion of Super Heroes. But yeah, keeping the Kents was a wonderful move, and it obviously influenced the Lois and Clark television series where they were my two favorite supporting characters.
Two favorite Kent scenes from that series, Ma Kent patiently explaining to Lois that yes, they have fax machines in Smallville. Pa Kent taking a baseball bat to amnesiac son's chest to prove he is indeed this "Super Man" guy everybody's been talking about.
Martha kicked him off his apartment balcony to convince him during that or another bout of amnesia, didn't she?
I also recall cracking up at Martha on the phone asking what sort of stain it was he wanted help getting out of his uniform, and Clark replying "I don't know, a bomb stain!"
It wasnt until recently I figure out that the Kents have been dead in Superman mythos longer than they've been alive and I hated that.
Modern writers try to twist the death of the Kents/Pa Kent into Supermans "coming of age" moment and I think thats horseshit.
Superman works best when he's as angst free as possible. Plus he has the whole " my entire fucking homeplanet exploded and everybody died because nobody came to save them" thing as far as hammering home the importance of using his abilities/what happens when he fails.
Ive always felt that Clark becoming Superman with the Kents still alive is even more admirable. Showing that Clark was such a good person that he didnt need horrible recent tragedy to become a Super Hero makes Superman more aspirational, which is IMO the core of the character.
Yeah, it's why I get irritated when writers or editors say it's better when the Kents aren't around so that Superman can work things out himself instead of going to them. I find that a positive, not a negative! The best thing about Lois and Clark were the Kents. :)
Byrne has admitted he wished he'd held back on the Krypton flashback until the final issue and have Clark learn from the Jor-El hologram the truth. "My mistake, I knew the story already." But still interesting turn.
Bryne really is underrated for so much with Superman. The key thing is here as, rather than Clark being the "mask", he IS Clark and Superman is his other identity. That alone made him far more releatable for readers to get behind and enjoy.
So many pages left off that add more like Jor-El noting how cold Krypton is and love for Lara as it explodes. And Clark's initial reaction to Pa showing him the ship. Plus, the great bit of Martha cutting out newspaper clippings on almost disasters they knew were prevented by Clark. It's the little touches that show how great it is.
Another genius bit that's overlooked is there in the scans with Pa going "as long as he's careful to never let anyone know he has two identities..." Bryne summed up how he thought it was dumb of Silver Age Superman to indicate he had another life. Because he doesn't wear a mask and is far more open, who would think someone with his powers would live as anyone else?
Thus, because no one would think Superman could be anyone on the street, they won't look as close on Clark so it works out. Plus, other bits which was summed up by Flash and Green Lantern in Blackest Night:
GL: "Clark doesn't wear a mask." Flash: "Clark slouches, drops his voice an octave and wears suits two sizes too large."
True, which was illustrated in Lex Luthor's monologue on the subject, from a man who simply could not believe someone as powerful as Superman would pretend to be a mere mortal.
I never bought into that. People only ever see Superman when he's on-duty, saving lives or at a press conference or whatever. He's never seen dining out or strolling through the sky or anything like that. The only two possibilities are that a) he's doing that stuff in secret or b) he just stays cooped at the Fortress whenever he's off the job. And given the personality he displays, a) seems a much likelier answer.
No, I'd maintain it doesn't take much of a leap of imagination at all to come on the idea that Superman might have another identity.
IIRC, the official line through much of the Bronze Age (including "Whatever Happened To The Man of Tomorrow?") was that Superman spent most of his time on scientific expeditions for STAR Labs or whoever when he wasn't punching out alien invaders or saving kittens.
My thought was always that Clark just happened to resemble Superman. We see that all the time, with that guy or gal in the office that, when you look at them a certain way, you think, "Huh. They could be the spitting image of ____." But it's more just a funny water cooler thing to say, not a serious accusation.
There's a fascinating post online by Jim Shooter, if my memory serves, in which he claims there was a period in the 1980s where DC was in real financial danger (how that reconciles with them being owned by Warners since the 1970s, I don't know, but let's go with it for the sake of the story). He says he and Byrne discussed how Marvel could reboot and insert Superman into the MCU, should they buy DC or licence their characters, and his belief much of that thinking informed Man of Steel. The series certainly is a very Marvel way of looking at the character and, like many other posters here, I believe the changes made were for the better.
Also? How much does slicked-back-hair, black-t-shirt Clark look like Connor? Wow...
Other, better-read skeptics will probably chime in sooner or later, but for now lemme see if I can articulate some of the bigger knocks against this (justifiably iconic) story without embarrassing myself too badly...
* The Reagan-era jingoism gets a little harder to stomach with every reread (not helped by all the heavy-handed comparisons of Krypton to the Soviet Union... yes, I know the place was a hellhole even under Gorby, but implying it deserves to blow up wholesale is kinda... erm...). * For all that people tend to conflate Reeve's Superman with the wacky/toothless Silver Age, I honestly feel this is what really codified the character's 'golly-gee-whiz, wasn't America swell way-back-when?' image. Even when I first read it I remember being kind of let down by the final issue - Clark's had 20-something years of the most wholesome American life around, why would Byrne even pretend a few minutes of tape from his supposed biological father would change anything? * The circumstances behind his... employment at the Planet. Using his powers in college football was bad enough, but this? Dick move, bro. * Byrne's Lex (which can apparently be blamed at least 50% on Marv Wolfman) is actually my biggest beef with this whole reboot, but I'll get to that when we're at #4...
And yet, when Byrne's Superman works, he really works. I can't point to any specific moment for this, but most of the time he simply exudes a sense of... domesticity, I suppose. A sense of warmth and reliability that reminds me there's lots worse fates for a superhero than becoming comfort food.
By the way - would anyone be interested in a repost series for Perez's Wonder Woman, or would Bluefall's old "When Wondy Was Awesome" continue to suffice.
Not entirely disagreeing here. The best things one can say about Clark's job-securing exclusive are that it was a brash move by a young man who hadn't yet considered how his getting hired less than fairly might affect others, and he did actually pay for it by being scorned by the woman he loved, whereas earlier examples of Superdickery were straight-up rewarded. This also gave Lois a reason to squint at Clark that was a lot more likable than the Silver Age's "Ooh, I just know you're secretly Superman, except maybe I don't, and I'm just too darn STUPID to prove it!" or the Golden Age's "I despise weaklings; see Exhibit A: you."
(The issue of Superman, and Spider-Man for that matter, earning their living by reporting on themselves is often under-explored, I'll admit. But Byrne inherited that one, and he couldn't very well dispense with it without making far more severe changes to the character.)
As far as jingoism, eh, maybe there's some? The sort of generic terrorists that appeared in half of all Eighties action-adventure series make an appearance, and there's a little shudder in Superman's voice when he mentions the possibility his rocket might've come from Russia. "What's important," he tells Lois, "is that I think and feel as an American."
But even if Superman's assimilation is key, this is still a story of an immigrant coming to embody the "American spirit" better than even his native-born adoptive parents. The series also ladles on a whole lot of criticism of capitalism's excesses, from the general public swarming Clark with demands ("Everybody had something they wanted me to do, to say, to SELL!") to, well, Lex Luthor. Superman's greatest enemy isn't the agent of some foreign power like the Red Skull or Doctor Doom, he's the dark underbelly of the country Superman loves, and I think any political criticism of the series has to take that into account.
(The issue of Superman, and Spider-Man for that matter, earning their living by reporting on themselves is often under-explored, I'll admit. But Byrne inherited that one, and he couldn't very well dispense with it without making far more severe changes to the character.)
Didn't they afterwards change things up a bit so it was almost always Lois getting the scoop on Superman after Clark's initial job-securing story? I definitely recall her still being the Daily Planet's star reporter with a Pulitzer Prize and such.
See, it's because of how the immigrant metaphor angle plays out that I don't like Byrne's take. He does his all to minimize Superman's connection to his Kryptonian (read: foreign) roots, to the point where he's practically Kryptonian *only* at the level of genetics. He even makes Krypton a sterile hellhole to minimize any sense of tragedy in its demise.
It strikes me as a xenophobic take on assimilation, born from a perspective where his Kryptonian-ness inherently gets in the way of his humanity/American-ness. He's the idea of a true American from the perspective of someone who thinks Americans shouldn't think of themselves as hyphenated Americans (an opinion Byrne himself has voiced online.)
One could make the argument that the pre-Crisis Superman leaned too far into the alien side but if so, Byrne's version overcorrects and goes way too far in the other direction.
I do like the Silver/Bronze Age version of Krypton. It was a beautiful place with its Jewel Mountains and Scarlet Jungle and the society had a lot going for it. The Byrnes version of sterility took away a lot of the sense of loss when Krypton exploded.
As someone who grew up under Reagan (and even liked the guy), that attitude was all too common as the issues with his Presidency really didn't come out too obvious until he was gone. Yes, it's much today but really, read most comics from that time and you get the same sense. Just as the '90s have their own attitude and same for Obama's time. It just showcases a unique feeling that was so natural back then and Byrne obviously didn't know how it would change over time.
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no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 01:17 am (UTC)Fun fact, I think "Law & The Multiverse" or some blog like that actually studied this origin and concluded that, in the eyes of the law, Clark was officially "born" the second he left that pod, meaning he IS legally an earthling from birth.
Anyway, say whatever you want about Byrne, having the Kents be a part of clark's adult life was a stroke of genius that gave us some of the best moments of the character post-crisis. Just looking at them, you really can see how Clark grew to be the person that he is.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 01:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 02:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 03:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 12:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 03:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 04:08 am (UTC)Two favorite Kent scenes from that series, Ma Kent patiently explaining to Lois that yes, they have fax machines in Smallville. Pa Kent taking a baseball bat to amnesiac son's chest to prove he is indeed this "Super Man" guy everybody's been talking about.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 02:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 04:27 pm (UTC)I also recall cracking up at Martha on the phone asking what sort of stain it was he wanted help getting out of his uniform, and Clark replying "I don't know, a bomb stain!"
no subject
Date: 2018-10-27 02:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 04:36 pm (UTC)Modern writers try to twist the death of the Kents/Pa Kent into Supermans "coming of age" moment and I think thats horseshit.
Superman works best when he's as angst free as possible. Plus he has the whole " my entire fucking homeplanet exploded and everybody died because nobody came to save them" thing as far as hammering home the importance of using his abilities/what happens when he fails.
Ive always felt that Clark becoming Superman with the Kents still alive is even more admirable. Showing that Clark was such a good person that he didnt need horrible recent tragedy to become a Super Hero makes Superman more aspirational, which is IMO the core of the character.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 08:34 am (UTC)Because while its weird Kryptonians are identical to humans, that solution is also pretty weird.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 04:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 10:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 01:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 03:25 am (UTC)Bryne really is underrated for so much with Superman. The key thing is here as, rather than Clark being the "mask", he IS Clark and Superman is his other identity. That alone made him far more releatable for readers to get behind and enjoy.
So many pages left off that add more like Jor-El noting how cold Krypton is and love for Lara as it explodes. And Clark's initial reaction to Pa showing him the ship. Plus, the great bit of Martha cutting out newspaper clippings on almost disasters they knew were prevented by Clark. It's the little touches that show how great it is.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 03:40 am (UTC)Thus, because no one would think Superman could be anyone on the street, they won't look as close on Clark so it works out. Plus, other bits which was summed up by Flash and Green Lantern in Blackest Night:
GL: "Clark doesn't wear a mask."
Flash: "Clark slouches, drops his voice an octave and wears suits two sizes too large."
no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 04:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 05:54 pm (UTC)No, I'd maintain it doesn't take much of a leap of imagination at all to come on the idea that Superman might have another identity.
no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 09:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-27 02:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-28 03:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-10-26 04:17 am (UTC)Also? How much does slicked-back-hair, black-t-shirt Clark look like Connor? Wow...
Mmm...
Date: 2018-10-26 05:27 am (UTC)* The Reagan-era jingoism gets a little harder to stomach with every reread (not helped by all the heavy-handed comparisons of Krypton to the Soviet Union... yes, I know the place was a hellhole even under Gorby, but implying it deserves to blow up wholesale is kinda... erm...).
* For all that people tend to conflate Reeve's Superman with the wacky/toothless Silver Age, I honestly feel this is what really codified the character's 'golly-gee-whiz, wasn't America swell way-back-when?' image. Even when I first read it I remember being kind of let down by the final issue - Clark's had 20-something years of the most wholesome American life around, why would Byrne even pretend a few minutes of tape from his supposed biological father would change anything?
* The circumstances behind his... employment at the Planet. Using his powers in college football was bad enough, but this? Dick move, bro.
* Byrne's Lex (which can apparently be blamed at least 50% on Marv Wolfman) is actually my biggest beef with this whole reboot, but I'll get to that when we're at #4...
And yet, when Byrne's Superman works, he really works. I can't point to any specific moment for this, but most of the time he simply exudes a sense of... domesticity, I suppose. A sense of warmth and reliability that reminds me there's lots worse fates for a superhero than becoming comfort food.
By the way - would anyone be interested in a repost series for Perez's Wonder Woman, or would Bluefall's old "When Wondy Was Awesome" continue to suffice.
Re: Mmm...
Date: 2018-10-26 11:32 am (UTC)(The issue of Superman, and Spider-Man for that matter, earning their living by reporting on themselves is often under-explored, I'll admit. But Byrne inherited that one, and he couldn't very well dispense with it without making far more severe changes to the character.)
As far as jingoism, eh, maybe there's some? The sort of generic terrorists that appeared in half of all Eighties action-adventure series make an appearance, and there's a little shudder in Superman's voice when he mentions the possibility his rocket might've come from Russia. "What's important," he tells Lois, "is that I think and feel as an American."
But even if Superman's assimilation is key, this is still a story of an immigrant coming to embody the "American spirit" better than even his native-born adoptive parents. The series also ladles on a whole lot of criticism of capitalism's excesses, from the general public swarming Clark with demands ("Everybody had something they wanted me to do, to say, to SELL!") to, well, Lex Luthor. Superman's greatest enemy isn't the agent of some foreign power like the Red Skull or Doctor Doom, he's the dark underbelly of the country Superman loves, and I think any political criticism of the series has to take that into account.
Re: Mmm...
Date: 2018-10-26 04:41 pm (UTC)Didn't they afterwards change things up a bit so it was almost always Lois getting the scoop on Superman after Clark's initial job-securing story? I definitely recall her still being the Daily Planet's star reporter with a Pulitzer Prize and such.
Re: Mmm...
Date: 2018-10-26 06:14 pm (UTC)It strikes me as a xenophobic take on assimilation, born from a perspective where his Kryptonian-ness inherently gets in the way of his humanity/American-ness. He's the idea of a true American from the perspective of someone who thinks Americans shouldn't think of themselves as hyphenated Americans (an opinion Byrne himself has voiced online.)
One could make the argument that the pre-Crisis Superman leaned too far into the alien side but if so, Byrne's version overcorrects and goes way too far in the other direction.
Re: Mmm...
Date: 2018-10-26 11:08 pm (UTC)Re: Mmm...
Date: 2018-10-26 04:23 pm (UTC)