Eight Scans of Solstice - Favorite Sad Moment: Superior Spider-Man

[cyberghostface]

From Superior Spider-Man #30.

Comments

[joetuss]

This wasn't a sad moment for me...this guy body jacked Peter, and I honestly think he got off easy. If I was Pete, I'd be trying to force feed Otto his own tentacles.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Shhh! Don't say that, Rule 34 might hear you!

[joetuss]

It's already been done lol

[beyondthefringe]

For all that Otto has been a villain over the decades--a crook, a murderer, a terrorist, a schemer, a monster--I still like that we've gotten this long arc of attempted redemption that doesn't excuse, justify, or whitewash his criminal past (except through his own perceptions.)

I mean sure, he deserves to rot in prison for what he's done... hell, he deserves to succumb to the death he's escaped repeatedly for some of what he's done.

BUT in the spirit of second chance redemption which is at the heart of Peter Parker's own philosophy and generous nature, Otto's attempt to overcome his worst excesses and channel his drive and genius towards helping the world is fascinating. And as long as he has people to call him on it--Peter, Anna-Maria, Miles, that alternate Peter from Spider-Geddon--I feel like maybe, -just maybe- we might see him occupy the same anti-hero space as Magneto, Venom, or the Punisher for a while longer. (I'd also wish that on Doom, since he's more interesting with nuances than as the DOOM WILL DESTROY THE ACCURSED RICHARDS AND RULE THE WORLD we've had for so long.)

Otto's sacrifice here--accepting oblivion and death to bring Peter back--is a moment of genuine... well, self-enlightened realization. Not heroism, not altruism, but the knowledge that he can't succeed, and he can't bear to fail Anna-Maria, so for once in his life he'll admit defeat and do what it takes to let someone else save the day. This Otto died, and so it's a genuinely touching moment. (Of course the backup of his memories survived, but comics, whaddyagonnado)

[joetuss]

My point is, how do you feel anything for a self indulgent murderer, and terrorist, who hijacked another person's body/life? How is Otto any different from Purple Man here? Where's a Ghost Rider when you need em?...I'm still waiting for Otto to get his.

[cyberghostface]

Purple Man and Otto are on different ends at of the villain scale. Kilgrave would never give up his life to save someone he loves.

[locuatico]

The actual difference is that Otto has admitted that consentt with Anna or anyone else was sketchy at best due to him lying to everyone.

"Most important of all: no matter how many times you get knocked down, can you get back up again?"

[deh_tommy]

I think I can enjoy reading, watching, listening to, etc. characters like Otto Octavius, Deadpool, Bojack Horseman, etc. are (however partially) at self-aware and honestly, genuinely try to overcome the worst aspects of themselves, or at least do good in spite of (or because of) them. Someone like Purple Man or Rick Sanchez or what have you just don't care and don't even try, and if they do that's less out of desire to do good/atone and more base curiosity.

[joetuss]

Both guys are murderous, mind rapers.

[cyberghostface]

And one is incapable of feeling remorse or admitting they were wrong. Otto at least is a tragic figure.

[locuatico]

I am conflicted.
Altough Otto has admitted guilt and his current run does say he was on the wrong... It mostly seems to be in relation to his relationship with Anna.
Which, don't get me wrong, if not rape, any sexual encounter was sketchy at best. And had they married, it would have been built in a huge lie. But it does seem to ignore the larger picture.
Like, due to Otto's actions, Peter was accused of plagiarism, was in a relationship Peter did not want to be in. Had to rebuild old friendships that Otto has almost destroyed and, altough not using Peter's body at the time, Otto forced Peter to destroy Parker industries and throw a bunch of people to the street. Which was treated almost universally as Peter in the wrong.

Yet I don't feel they have admitted this part of Otto's crimes, focusing instead on his relationship with Anna.
I haven't read the current series, but I have seen him going back to the superior Spiderman costume. Which, in theory I do not dislike.
Say, it is the conclusion of his arc. Him finally admitting to all the wrong he had done and what a jackass he is. The moment he has atone to call him a hero and the costume being a symbol of that.

but he hasn't earned that. at all.

[beyondthefringe]

Good question. Purple Man is pure evil and I wouldn't miss him if he stayed gone.

But as far as mind-swaps/body-stealing in comics go, there's such a long history of it... Emma Frost stole Storm's body early on, and yet was a celebrated member of the X-Men and a teacher for many years. (I had other examples in my mind but they've slipped away!)

At what point do we decide that one villain deserves a shot at redemption and another doesn't? How far is too far? Where's the unforgivable line... and what punishment is severe enough?

[cyberghostface]

And I'm not caught up with everything X-Men but didn't Bishop commit mass genocide and he's still on good terms with the X-Men?

[beyondthefringe]

Oh, but like, it doesn't count since it was future people. Never mind he literally killed untold numbers of people in the future, they didn't exist, so...

Yeah. He spent years trying to kill Cable and Hope, and they took him back.

Sabretooth is a sociopathic serial killer and they still tried to rehabilitate him and use him on X-Force and X-Factor. Mystique is a terrorist and a killer and they take her back every six months. The X-Men are notorious for trying to give their villains a second or third chance.

Now, if the general hero community got wind of Spider-Man giving Otto Octavius a free pass like this... they might give him some serious side-eye. It's one thing to have plausible deniability and say that he's one of the -many- knock-off Spider-people out there, but another to admit that he knew it was the former Doctor Octopus and he still let him go free repeatedly.

(Seriously, how weird -is- it that Spider-Man, of all heroes, would be the one with a dozen variants and knock-offs running around? Otto/Superior Spider-Man, -two- Scarlet Spiders (Ben and Kaine), Spider-Woman, Spider-Girl, Silk, Spider-Man 2099, Miles, Venom, the Steel Spider, it's like he's opening a franchise. A Spider-Man in every major city. Sheesh.)

[mrstatham]

As much as I disliked Slott's run and what led to it, this was at least an interesting idea at times; I just wish they actually, you know, had the balls to run with the idea of real consequences for Otto running around in Peter's body for that long - it just seemed to get swept under the rug rather quickly and the only real result was... *Superior Octopus* (waves hands exasperatedly).