Countdown to Infinite Crisis #1

[history79]

24 pages of 72

Comments

[lordultimus]

Not in the scans, but I did like the scene with Blue Beetle and Wonder Woman.

Is it wrong that the same comic that kills Ted off and sets the stage for Diana to kill a villain makes me ship them?

[shakalooloo]

Is there any reason why Ted thought a show of defiance in private was worth anything, when he could have achieved so much more had he played along and been able to see Max's plans from inside?

[hotfoot]

Sometimes it's about sticking to one's beliefs and values, even in the face of Armageddon.

It's not something I often agree with, generally speaking, but it's a common enough theme in comics.

Of course, there is the possibility that Max, with his telepathic powers, would have been able to sense deception coming from Ted, and Ted would have probably known that, and so decided to go out on his terms.

That said, I've never been terribly fond of this. I'm glad it ended up giving us Jaime, and it's not the worst way I've seen a hero go out in one of these stories, but I tend to prefer the other end for Ted Kord from the Booster Gold series. That felt a lot better.

[beyondthefringe]

Things I liked: Showing that Ted Kord was truly a hero and a force to be reckoned with. A genius with neat gadgets, detective skills, fighting skills, and true insight into the community.

Things which pissed me off: Everyone shutting him out, closing him down, betraying him, dismissing him. And then of course his pointless, depressing, awful murder. And by that same token, Max Lord's ultimate heel turn, thus putting a nail in the coffin of the JLI era.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Honestly, in situations like this, you have to figure that the villain is only asking in order to convince themselves that they're the good guy and not actually trying to recruit the guy who, an hour ago, tried to expose everything.

[mazway_75]

And so begins the true dark era of DC.

[icon_uk]

Personally, I think Identity Crisis had done that already.

[thezmage]

Ahh, yes, the old “Ted Kord sucked and deserved to die, so luckily he did, without accomplishing anything” comic

[strejdaking]

I don't really see it. The comic shows him to be a hero who would, if not totally avert the disaster, then prevent a lot of damage if only people had listened to him. If anything, it's the other characters that are put down down for Ted's sake.

[thezmage]

Yeah, if only he hadn’t been so completely worthless that even Superman doesn’t give a shit about him he could maybe have accomplished something.

[strejdaking]

But he wasn't worthless. That was the point, Ted was right, it's everyone else who was wrong to ignore him.

[thezmage]

But he was, he accomplished nothing, exposed nothing, all he did was get himself killed. If he had died of a heart attack the day before this story started the DCU would have had gone on completely unchanged. Being right is hardly an argument against his uselessness when he can’t use that “being right” to any positive end

Edit: I mean Superman, of all people, doesn’t care if he lives or dies, doesn’t care what he has to say. How useless do you have to be that even Superman doesn’t give a shit?

[strejdaking]

Because. They. Wouldn't Listen.

I'm sorry, but it's honestly pretty insulting that you think that just because he didn't defeat a conspiracy to destroy all people with powers in the world on all on his own, that he was some worthless loser. And yes, it absolutely IS an argument against it, because it means he COULD have used it to positive end, but didn't due to no fault of his own. What was Ted supposed to do? How would say, Green Arrow do better all alone? And how is not finding out about the conspiracy not an accomplisment? The other heroes didn't, meaning they accomplished LESS than him. If Ted was a failure, how are they not even worse?

Either way, I just don't see how the story supports your premise that he was a loser who deserved to die, by presenting him as a hero who knew better than the entire superhero community and heroically died for their sake.

[thezmage]

You say “they didn’t listen” as if that were a counterargument to my point instead of exactly my point. They didn’t listen because Ted, before the book, had apparently established himself as such a complete and total waste of space that he shouldn’t be listened to. You act like it’s perfectly normal for Superman not to have time for somebody, when instead that’s pretty damn rare.

How would Green Arrow have done better alone? He wouldn’t have been alone! He’d have been able to convince other people in the superhero community to take him seriously. And the other heroes not only did find out about the conspiracy, they defeated it, all without Ted Kord’s help.

And he didn’t “die for their sakes,” he just died. Doing nothing, accomplishing nothing, just giving Checkmate a mild inconvenience at best. Checkmate continues to do its thing and Ted gets a shallow grave. He’s Drew Barrymore in Scream, a minor character who dies to establish the threat. That’s not heroic

The story presents Ted as a loser who stumbles into something beyond his scope and is unable to do anything because he’s so completely useless that nobody will listen to him

[icon_uk]

Heroism is in your actions, not their consequences.

And this story effectively retcons Ted as being completely useless, to the point no one takes him seriously at all, when he DOES have a heroic track record that has to be completely ignored by absolutely everyone ever for this particular story to work. That's not a good narrative, that's just lazy writing,

And if Superman doesn't have time for another hero who has served on the JLA, you have to ask; Does that mean the hero is a waste of space, or is Superman being badly written?

[strejdaking]

They never claimed it was a good comic.

[icon_uk]

Fair point.

[thezmage]

I know it’s poorly written. It’s a poorly-written excercise in character assassination. Ted here is “the boy who cried wolf” at the end of the story except without the setup, as you point out, it ruins whatever moral it can claim to have

EDIT: because we never see Ted “cry wolf,” the moral goes from “don’t cry wolf” to “don’t be Ted Kord”

[strejdaking]

They didn't find out on their own, Sasha Bordeaux told them, partially motivated by Ted's death. And if they listened, things would still turn out better for everyone.

Okay, bullshit. He DID die for their sake, he died trying to help them. He died alone, fighting for a good cause and dying intead of compromising his morals. That is heroic.

[strejdaking]

I've checked and that's not what happened with Superman? Ted didn't come to him with the conspiracy, his scene was about Kryptonite that got stolen from him and he's polite and not dismissive of him. Dunno where you ghet the idea he didn't "care if he lives or dies".

[blueprintstyles]

This comic introduced me to, and me love, Ted Kord.

[mazway_75]

That's what makes it sadder. After so many years of him treated as a second-string goofball with get-rich-quick schemes, this was the first time in to long Ted was shown as a capable guy in so many ways. A shame it was so short-lived.

[bradygirl_12]

Man, this is depressing. :(

[zachbeacon]

This is the comic that made me realize DC had Marvel-envy.

There have been bright spots here and there but they never really recovered from this and Identity Crisis.

[scorntx]

-There have been bright spots here and there-

That's one of the more annoying bits about the whole thing with DC.
They get into a pattern of being increasingly grim & dark, then a story comes along which is all "we're going to be brighter and happier now, honest. No Teen Titans will be brutally murdered this time!"

And just as they actually look like they've Learned a Lesson... they go and murder a Teen Titan, and the whole thing repeats itself.

[zachbeacon]

Now that you mention it, reading modern DC does kind of seem like being in a really toxic relationship.

You don't get to see most of your friends from before the Nu52. Then you start to feel like things are getting better with DCYou and Rebirth. Then the next thing you know they're trying to kill Nightwing again.

Okay, it isn't a GREAT metaphor but I do feel like every big promotional push (what's the Bendis young reader's thing called?) comes a message of "come back. It'll be different this time"

[icon_uk]

Yeah, given the generally positive reaction to the lighter characterisations of DC Rebirth, and the more or less complete "Oh is that still going on?" reaction to Doomsday Clock (Amongst any fans I've herd mention it) I'm flummoxed by their decision to start murdering people on an industrial scale again in "Heroes in Crisis". Who was asking for this?

[emileesaurus]

Jesus Christ, this comic. I go through these phases with it where sometimes I think, well, the horrible silver lining is that Ted's characterization was pretty solid while DC murdered him! There's interesting stuff there! Thanks Greg Rucka! And the rest of the time I'm annoyed that they felt they had to darkandedgy him up to get readers to take him seriously and therefore give a shit.

Also it was just a terrible era for DC killing off all their lighthearted characters for drama and shock value. This on the heels of Sue Dibny? Brutal.

That said, despite my frustration, I do like some of the fallout of it. 52 is some of the best stuff DC's put out in recent years. Booster Gold is my all-time favorite superhero, and Ted's death was the catalyst for such fantastic storytelling.

Still. Jesus Christ. This comic.

edit: also god I wish Max's descent into supervillainy had been foreshadowed better. I don't even mind him as a villain (especially with Sue's murder as his motivation for turning against the superhero community! it's a great foil to Booster's reaction to Ted's death!), it's just that his motivations were written so stupidly.

[zylly]

I realize he wouldn't have had the personal connection to Ted (which may have necessitated using Dick instead), but I've long thought the original plan for the villain to be Mister Jupiter would have made so much more sense.

That dude always gave off "I'm a creeper and I'm up to something vibes" even in his 60's appearances.

Max was always a little bit sketchy, but he also genuinely cared about the League, even when he wanted to throttle Booster and Beetle. His behavior here and during the crossover goes direction against actual thought balloons he had when no one else was around during his League time. So the retcon that he was keeping the League ineffectual rings amazingly false.

[zachbeacon]

Yeah, I prefer the Max Lord who is super sleazy and frequently brainwashed or possessed* but ultimately a good (-ish) guy.

*Still waiting to find out it was really Lord Havok or somebody responsible for killing Ted.

The thought balloon thing is a big part of why I have problems with massive reinterpretations of established characters. Kinda hard to buy that someone is an alien spy or secretly gay or whatever when we've seen inside their head for decades.

[icon_uk]

I suspect the trouble with using Mr Jupiter would be that pretty much nobody who wasn't a Silver Age Titans fan (or, even less likely, a fan of the 1996 Teen Titans series) would have the slightest clue who he was.

No one would care that he'd gone bad, never mind wonder where he got powers from.

[strejdaking]

At the same time, did anyone who did remember JLI like what they did with Max here?

Why would Jupiter need powers?

[icon_uk]

The same reason Max needed them, to be a credible threat on the scale he was.

[strejdaking]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but were Max's mind-control powers in any particualr way relevant to his plan? His plan was taking over the OMAC project and have those guys kill everybody, right? I know he mind controlled Superman, but that wasn't really the plan A.

[scorntx]

Which would've been an interesting twist.

After pages of conspiracy, suddenly and without any real foreshadowing, the villain turns out to be...
Some guy barely anyone remembers, in or out of universe?

[icon_uk]

You might be on to something with that. :)

[zylly]

I’m actually one of the few fans of Jurgens’ Titans, but I get your point

I’m just saying you could probably make a more justifiable case for him going bad than Max.

[sarahnewlin]

Is it just me who wants Ted and Booster to be an official couple?

[viridian5]

Me too!

[icon_uk]

Is there anyone who doesn't?

Even amongst DC creative teams, it's not even subtle

[strejdaking]

Honestly, of all the characters to be revealed bi/gay, why not them? It's hardly out of nowhere, neither has an popular love interest, pretty much everybody who likes one, likes the other and ships them together...