Fantastic Four #7

[cyberghostface]

"I think if you asked any citizen on the streets of Latveria who their favorite hero is, they'll tell you it's Doom. And it's not because someone is holding a gun to their head. He is very much the people's hero and their beloved leader. He doesn't need to use any propaganda." -- Dan Slott

Comments

[laughing_tree]

"I think if you asked any citizen on the streets of Latveria who their favorite hero is, they'll tell you it's Doom. And it's not because someone is holding a gun to their head. He is very much the people's hero and their beloved leader. He doesn't need to use any propaganda."

Nah, it's through propaganda.

[palgrave_goldenrod]

Okay, seriously. I get why people love Doom, but the fellating really needs to stop.

He's an asshole. A charismatic asshole, but an asshole. Never mind the people of Latveria, his own writers really need to stop buying his propaganda.

[elilla]

It's interesting to think why all these writers are so eager to engage in Doom apologetics.

[starwolf_oakley]

And Batman is...?

All right, to be fair, "Batman is a jerk to other superheroes" started as a 1990s thing and became Standard Operating Procedure.

[palgrave_goldenrod]

I mean, I never said Batman wasn't an asshole, to be fair. If you're going to disagree with me about writers over-valorising Doctor Doom when perhaps they shouldn't, that's fine, but there's no need to throw Batman into the conversation out of nowhere like I'm somehow being a hypocrite by not pointing out Batman's history of being a dick in the same breath.

Though I will say that while Batman certainly can be an asshole, unlike Doom he's never been quite on the "dictatorial authoritarian tyrant suppressing an entire nation partly in service of his own ego and vendettas" level of asshole that I can recall. And if he has, I feel pretty comfortable suggesting that it would most likely be treated by the writers as a bad thing.

[strejdaking]

Hasn't every writer that wrote Batman in any longer capicity over the past 10 years have been trying to course-correct that and emphasize Bruce's relationships with others (particularly with Superman)?

[thehood]

It makes me miss Fraction's run.

[lordultimus]

I remember that Mark Millar issue where Doom goes, "Hey, anyone who stops clapping for me in the next two hours gets shot, alright?"

Just saying.

[scorntx]

There was that time Doom's solution to Beyonders wanting to blow up the omniverse was to blow up universes.
And then, when given the power to fix it, sat around playing god-emperor for eight years.

Random thought. Apropos of nothing.

[matrix_dragon]

And he stole Sue's memories of Reed, made her believe she was his loving wife, and made Valeria and Franklin think they were his kids. Speaking of, anyone remember the time he was going to sacrifice Val to Satan? Or the several times he tried to murder Franklin to steal his powers?

[deh_tommy]

Something I really liked about Secret Wars 2015 (or at least something I got from the story) was the ultimate message that it's okay to let go, and that new doesn't have to be bad: Doom, for all his amazing power, couldn't restore anything (hence stitching everything together in Battleworld), not even his own face. RICHARDS, however, realised they could instead use their incredible power to create; Something familiar, yet at the same time all-new, all-different. A new multiverse, a new home for everyone, and even a new face for Doom.

Then again, ANAD was prematurely killed off and a lot of the new was thrown out in favour of the old again, so bleh.

[strejdaking]

Yeah, I really think the benevolent autocrat take shouldn't be played 100% straight anymore. I know, it was cool and subversive at first, but that ain't how it ever works in real life and it gets kinda uncomfortable. Not that Latveria should be a complete dystopian hellhole or that Doom shouldn't have willing followers, but for all the general quality of life and safety, the love for him should very much be demanded and mandated.

[deh_tommy]

To be fair, the moment he stepped down from power the Government went almost completely corrupt (I mean, even more so) overnight, the land became ravaged by war and quality of life for the average Latverian plummeted.

[strejdaking]

No, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The idea that Doom is actually good and loving ruler that's actually a preferable choice to democracy because that's how writers make it so in their made up world and the whole brlliant autocrat fantasy. I get it's just to make him cool and complex, but it's basically saying "autocracy totally works, even if it's technically wrong".

[matrix_dragon]

... Nope. He's an asshole, a mass murderer, a dictator, a backstabber, a war criminal, and a few dozen other negative descriptors I can think of without even trying. And all his crimes start from the fact he is a horrible, pathetic little shit whose ego can't stand being shown to be wrong in any way.

[trooper924]

I am suddenly reminded of that bit in JLA/Avengers where the DC heroes pass through Latveria and see a large crowd of people loudly cheering for Doom--while a group of armed guards point machine guns at them.

[gnarll]

I liked Doom trying to be Iron Man. Too brief.

[cyberghostface]

Yeah I wish he hadn't been returned to status quo so soon. Interesting that Dr. Octopus is still Superior Spider-Man years later in comparison. Wonder if there was any editorial mandate behind it given Doom is effectively Marvel's #1 villain.

[super_fly]

On that note I also liked it when Galactus was the Lifebringer.

[commodus]

I always loved the characterisation of Doom as someone who truly cared about his people. It's so much more interesting when a villain has a virtuous streak, rather than being an irredeemable monster.
Plus, I love Aaron Kuder's art here. He draws Doom really well.

[palgrave_goldenrod]

I like that aspect of Doom too -- the idea that his actions are partly driven by genuine love of his country and people.

It's when writers start insisting that all the Latverians genuinely and unconditionally love Doom in return because he's so Amazing and Fantastic and Wow that I start to smell bullshit, though.

[mazway_75]

"So a dinosaur moved to Yancy Street, Galactus was a force for good and Doom was a good guy. Anything else we missed?"

"Um....have we mentioned that bit about Cap going Nazi and taking over the country?"

[scorntx]

"Oh, and before that this Inhuman developed the ability to see the future, which for some reason meant Carol Danvers and Tony Stark started fighting each other over whether it was morally sound to use that to police people. Ended when Carol punched Tony into a coma."
"What."
"And that terrigenesis cloud started fatally poisoning mutants, so Cyclops tried to get rid of it. Then Black Bolt and Medusa tried to murder him, only it turned out he'd been dead for ages. And everyone said that trying to stop the death cloud made him as bad as Hitler."
"That... What?"
"Wish I was making that up. And then after that the Inhumans and the X-Men got into this big fight..."
"Wait, wait, you're telling me that all that happened, but a dinosaur moving into Yancy Street is apparently more noteworthy?!"
"Maybe you should'a called us more, ya jerk!

[thehood]

I really miss life bringer Galactus.

[john_wyatt]

Doom being loved in Latveria reminds me a lot of Lex Luthor being loved and Superman being hated on the planet Lexor. I'd prefer both of those more if Doom wanted to be a beloved effective ruler, but couldn't pull it off legitimately due to his Richards Derangement Syndrome.